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Why Pooh is tougher than Azriel and shouldn't be

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Azraelswrd View Post
    Healing the health bar on a Genesis takes more stamina. Red serpent too.
    Seems like someone confused words '-'
    ~'Zarkkast Meriowsteint'~

    ~'Corvinthean Blackguard Prince'~

    Team W.A.R.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by astein View Post
      (With apologies to Pooh, you are the most prominent 'wall' build that I am aware of; I don't get around much here.)

      If someone with a couple hundred attack and similar defense decided to attack a PvP player like Pooh and dumped all their 1000+ stamina into it how much xp would they get? They would be able to 'kill' Pooh if they did (unless he healed up during that time), but this is just a silly artifact of the game as evidenced by the fact that they get essentially nothing out of it.

      Now the same person attacks the toughest monster out there. (It doesn't matter what you define as toughest whether it is Keira with her abs and thighs that must be literally made out of some flesh colored steel or Ragnarok who is made of rock and earth.) Somehow, even though they couldn't break through the defenses of any PvP player, they can do massive damage to a monster made completely of rock! It is as if the monster was being brought down by one person wielding a kitchen knife and chopping at rock really fast while other people with canons are only making small holes.

      My point is that the skill points are designed for PvP. When monster hunting was introduced they changed the game completely and doing so they made three of the stat useless. (For those who babble about trade-off, my responce is what trade-off? What does high attack give you that high stamina doesn't do better. The answer is only PvP, which is why I am suggestion that monsters be more like PvP.)

      There are only a couple ways of fixing this. One can leave it the way it is and don't care as some people get everything too fast then get bored fast and leave. They can try to bandaid things by giving the people who are leveling too fast something new to do. They can fix the xp of monsters to include damage. (This will make xp grow on the order of stat point squared which can be bad if not done properly.) Or they can make the monsters much more like the PvP play.

      How do we make Azriel more like Pooh then? The key is that if you don't have enough attack then you do 0 damage and gain no xp.

      For example lets say the min attack is 500 for a monster and you have 300 attack and 300 def. This will give you an attack rating of 300 +300*0.7 = 510. If you attacked this monster you would attack as if you had 510-500 = 10 attack points. This is just a number pulled out of my hat only for this example. You will get xp as normal unless you are less then 500 in which case you get zilch, zip and nada. (Allowances can always be made for lower level people not needing this amount.) Tougher monsters should also give more xp/stamina as well, but that probably isn't currently possible without giving the higher level PL too much advantage.

      The disadvantage of this is that it significantly changes the monsters and many aspects of the monster will have to be retooled. The advantage is that monsters can be made that are friendly to other types of builds than just PL builds.

      Is there really anything wrong with throwing other character builds a bone? (Many of which are quite loyal and content with leveling once a day or once every other day.)
      1. variety
      2. 2 comletely different features... can't compare 2 completely different functions... would you look at a car and say this carburetor isn't functioning 100% while this piston is, let's make adjustments to one like the better one so that they all work as best as they can... (i may only be able to name like 20% of all parts in a car and the names are the extent of what i know, it was simply the first idea that came to mind)
      3. The monsters are too busy destroying the earth to defend themself... meanwhile... we have zaverok with his massive sword leaping into the air and sliding the entire body length to the ground leaving a massive crevasse in his armor... much moar dmg...
      4. you're comparing two features...


      the trade-off is a great choice, see:

      Stamina and Energy: Do more actions (main advantage is solely in refills and during level ups, bigger jump on the next level)

      Attack and Defense: Do more with each action or choose to NOT have your *** handed to you in PvP areas of the game...

      See... at level ups, Stamina and Energy wins out, they get a HUGE jump on the next level and massive chances to keep leveling once a day...

      once the person runs out however, Attack and Defense builds come out on top, b/c everyone gets 1 stam and 1 ene every 5 minutes... that means in 25 minutes, someone with heightened atk and def will have had a more effective regeneration time seeing as they can do as much as double, triple, sometimes septuple what another player who's a power-leveler can do...

      if done right, both can come out flush even with each other, if done wrong, both are going to have issues...

      in theory, during a level up, both will do equal dmg to a monster, atk/def builds with less actions and less time, but a stam/ene build will get to the next level faster, in the meantime, when both run out of stam/ene from a level up, they have equal dmg at which point the attack and defense build will take over and begin to lead... only if the leveler is fast enough to level fast enough could he possibly keep up...

      The best way? well... it's obviously best to level fast, it's blatantly obvious... you get 5 stat points faster that way, 5 more jump on the next level, 5 more jump on the next 5, when you get to 1000/1000 stats, you're already well past the attack and defense builds and since level ups only give up to 1000 of each refilled stam/ene stat, then you can focus on attack and defense and end up far further than the other players...

      also i've done some math

      5 stat points from a level up is ~100-200 more dmg/hit MAX
      10 for 2 levels is 200-300 MAX (sounds off, this is more accurate)

      10 stats from 2 levels is one more attack which has a base dmg of 5000+ depending on monster and defenses for newer monsters

      I messed up math somewhere and have deleted all extra work, but i calculated that adding attack is less valuable at every point up until you get over 200 stamina, at which point every point past 200 stamina is adding attack more valuable... i am a power leveler, i have ~350 stamina and ~680 energy, and now when *I* add my 5 level up points to attack if i so choose, it's much mroe effective than my good friend who only has 200... plus i level in 2/3 the time it takes him, though for some reason the levels are getting more difficult to level during now... i am leveling once every day and 1-5 hours... stupid experience rolls being horrible...

      there actually is a balance...

      Comment


      • #18
        Oops, well you know what I meant. >_>
        .

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Azraelswrd View Post
          It's still not severe enough. I want broken bones, blood on the floor, heads on pike level carnage!!! ABomb's life is so huge that blowing a cripple is barely visible on the health bar. Losing a deflect can smoke a health bar but it's so short that it is very easy to recoup the damage.

          Healing the health bar on a Genesis takes more stamina. Red serpent too.
          i could just see during the time that "Azriel is fighting back harshly" (or w/e the status is... )

          "A fellow soldier was unforunate enough to get in the way of Azriel's counter-strike! you were lucky to have taken no damage as a result, but your friend was not so lucky... His head rolled to your feet during the aftermath of Azriel's strike.

          You decided to pick your friend's head up and place it on a pike for extra lag in your keep to keep the potential attackers away... XD"

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Blaze55555 View Post
            i could just see during the time that "Azriel is fighting back harshly" (or w/e the status is... )

            "A fellow soldier was unforunate enough to get in the way of Azriel's counter-strike! you were lucky to have taken no damage as a result, but your friend was not so lucky... His head rolled to your feet during the aftermath of Azriel's strike.

            You decided to pick your friend's head up and place it on a pike for extra lag in your keep to keep the potential attackers away... XD"
            That should happen to taggers.
            "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Fynn View Post
              That should happen to taggers.
              lol... one of these day imma attempt a long diatribe (as i am excellent ant rambles) on the whole argument base of every argument in the whole tagger issue and my final conclusions as a final fix...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by astein View Post
                (With apologies to Pooh, you are the most prominent 'wall' build that I am aware of; I don't get around much here.)

                If someone with a couple hundred attack and similar defense decided to attack a PvP player like Pooh and dumped all their 1000+ stamina into it how much xp would they get? They would be able to 'kill' Pooh if they did (unless he healed up during that time), but this is just a silly artifact of the game as evidenced by the fact that they get essentially nothing out of it.

                Now the same person attacks the toughest monster out there. (It doesn't matter what you define as toughest whether it is Keira with her abs and thighs that must be literally made out of some flesh colored steel or Ragnarok who is made of rock and earth.) Somehow, even though they couldn't break through the defenses of any PvP player, they can do massive damage to a monster made completely of rock! It is as if the monster was being brought down by one person wielding a kitchen knife and chopping at rock really fast while other people with canons are only making small holes.

                My point is that the skill points are designed for PvP. When monster hunting was introduced they changed the game completely and doing so they made three of the stat useless. (For those who babble about trade-off, my responce is what trade-off? What does high attack give you that high stamina doesn't do better. The answer is only PvP, which is why I am suggestion that monsters be more like PvP.)

                There are only a couple ways of fixing this. One can leave it the way it is and don't care as some people get everything too fast then get bored fast and leave. They can try to bandaid things by giving the people who are leveling too fast something new to do. They can fix the xp of monsters to include damage. (This will make xp grow on the order of stat point squared which can be bad if not done properly.) Or they can make the monsters much more like the PvP play.

                How do we make Azriel more like Pooh then? The key is that if you don't have enough attack then you do 0 damage and gain no xp.

                For example lets say the min attack is 500 for a monster and you have 300 attack and 300 def. This will give you an attack rating of 300 +300*0.7 = 510. If you attacked this monster you would attack as if you had 510-500 = 10 attack points. This is just a number pulled out of my hat only for this example. You will get xp as normal unless you are less then 500 in which case you get zilch, zip and nada. (Allowances can always be made for lower level people not needing this amount.) Tougher monsters should also give more xp/stamina as well, but that probably isn't currently possible without giving the higher level PL too much advantage.

                The disadvantage of this is that it significantly changes the monsters and many aspects of the monster will have to be retooled. The advantage is that monsters can be made that are friendly to other types of builds than just PL builds.

                Is there really anything wrong with throwing other character builds a bone? (Many of which are quite loyal and content with leveling once a day or once every other day.)
                Sounds like an interesting concept. Maybe it could be the boss for Atlantis or something...so not like a new kind of monster but a special one-or-a-few-of-a-kind (so too many people don't start whining).

                Comment


                • #23
                  I do think the OP suggestion is already here and it's called 'Raid'...
                  And I do think that the current raid system is better than a fixed amount of attack stat needed to damage a boss...

                  Next I think there will be a 'Raid War' in queue for the new content provided the new war pvp system gets tweaked a bit...
                  I was told that's there's too many pixels in it, so I'm thinking about a new one

                  My Bunker: http://apps.facebook.com/castle_age/...user=542018117

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    the OP has a stupid idea... i think any action that uses energy/stamina without giving exp. is stupid.

                    cardinal rule: You learn more from failure than you do from victory or success... it's been said since the dawn of time... you have more to learn, more to see, more to improve on if you're failing, so messed up actions should give increased exp...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Strange suggestion.

                      How to make monsters easier for PvP builds?

                      Maybe after that devs could nerf PvP players' builds to make it easier for Monster Hunters to PvP.

                      That would be great

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        great, questers, low attack monster hunters and low attack pvpers will be screwed
                        the final goodbye has come

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          why do people claim that pvp gives low experience compared to pvm =S

                          even before war was introduced pvp can give just as much as monster hunting. hit a monster with a 5 stam power attack and on average you'll get about 10-15 exp depending what it is i guess, you can get exactly the same kind of average off pvp. only with monsters tho can you actually end up getting less exp that the amount of stamina you put it lol

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            so you want like "the bigger your attack, the bigger your exp"? sorry man, you chose to level slow with pvp build, go with it. you definitely can't have it all, you just can't n never will. anyway, it's been posted before n it's a very very bad n selfish idea.
                            ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Also there are plenty of people that can beat Pooh too

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Personally, I choose to flush pooh, but if you feel the need to beat it, have at it.

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