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Confuse needs to be nerfed

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  • Confuse needs to be nerfed

    This is about the 100th time I have written this, only to be poo pooed by mages. How is it fair that a mage can use 10 tokens to disable 50 tokens on the other team? In addition there is no way to avoid confuse because of the 50% effective attack increase and because of enrage on top of that. And no, you cannot dispel confuse. Once it is on you you have to burn through a minimum of 5 tokens before you can dispel others. And that's only if the mage isn't a bot where it confuses you again the second you have your confuse removed. And there are so many mage bots in the game because of the confuse feature. Right now strength or level doesn't matter because of confuse. The team with the confuse wins about 99% of the time. And mages say it isn't overpowered? Give me a break. It's not even doing any battles, It's just a game of who has the fastest confuse script. And as I've suggested before, if you want to keep the same confuse percentage chances, instead of increasing effective attack by 50%, decrease effective attack by 80%. Also, if it's a 100v100 battle, make it that a mage can't confuse from the keep.
    Last edited by John944615; 02-16-2020, 09:54 AM.

  • #2
    Switch to Masilda - 1 out of every 100 times the confuse won't do anything at all. Masilda is way overpowered

    Comment


    • #3
      I see your point of frustration but is not as simple:
      - In order to disable 100% you need a really powerful alliance (layla + syren 6* lv80). Basically a very powerful toon.
      - We could say the same with WW, and high damage run and toons able to hit for 4k x 3 = 12k per hit or even higher I believe. Confuse is one of "the" abilities that make mages worth.
      - In the end the target in the game is team work. In your example, one single cleric not confused (in keep for example) can counter act those 50 tokens and nullify that big toon, while a big toon with WW is difficult to stop (unless you confuse them if you can ).

      I am not clearly in favor or nerfing confuse. I would be more in favor of boosting self cleanse for example.

      I know it can be frustrating, and mostly in colo or 10v10 due to the reduced number of members in the team and tokens.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by namaxe View Post
        I see your point of frustration but is not as simple:
        - In order to disable 100% you need a really powerful alliance (layla + syren 6* lv80). Basically a very powerful toon.
        - We could say the same with WW, and high damage run and toons able to hit for 4k x 3 = 12k per hit or even higher I believe. Confuse is one of "the" abilities that make mages worth.
        - In the end the target in the game is team work. In your example, one single cleric not confused (in keep for example) can counter act those 50 tokens and nullify that big toon, while a big toon with WW is difficult to stop (unless you confuse them if you can ).

        I am not clearly in favor or nerfing confuse. I would be more in favor of boosting self cleanse for example.

        I know it can be frustrating, and mostly in colo or 10v10 due to the reduced number of members in the team and tokens.
        1) a warrior do NOT get a +50% attack bonus using ww
        2) a warrior needs to raise confidence to do high damage, it takes 20 str8 wins to max out confidence with meekah, AND confidence goes down if you lose. 10v10/colo battles are over LONG before any warrior reach a high damage treshold.
        3) confuse IS a game killer, on a personal note it is one of the reasons i have stopped playing in top guilds.100v100/10v10 and now colo has been ruined for many players because of it.
        4) a warrior needs meekah in all load out, to not lose gained confidence fast with 1 hit.
        Last edited by hansa; 02-16-2020, 05:46 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by namaxe View Post
          I see your point of frustration but is not as simple:
          - In order to disable 100% you need a really powerful alliance (layla + syren 6* lv80). Basically a very powerful toon.
          - We could say the same with WW, and high damage run and toons able to hit for 4k x 3 = 12k per hit or even higher I believe. Confuse is one of "the" abilities that make mages worth.
          - In the end the target in the game is team work. In your example, one single cleric not confused (in keep for example) can counter act those 50 tokens and nullify that big toon, while a big toon with WW is difficult to stop (unless you confuse them if you can ).

          I am not clearly in favor or nerfing confuse. I would be more in favor of boosting self cleanse for example.

          I know it can be frustrating, and mostly in colo or 10v10 due to the reduced number of members in the team and tokens.
          Yeah I think self-cleanse could be a good solution. It wouldn't even really be a nerf in 100v and Classic GB.

          If you don't want to harm players who invested lots of money in Syren and maybe Layla, an additional and this time direct nerf could be removing the +50% bonus attack provided by Confuse. It's an extremely powerful spell. Why should it be made super easy to cast it successfully? (there's already more pierce than resistance and more attack than def available in the game mostly due to Chaos Gems).
          Btw I don't play mage, can you use Poly to then Confuse? (I assume not... and currently it would be completely useless I know - unless atk bonuses stack). If it can work that way, then Mages would have to use 2 tokens to be able to successfully cast Confuse on an opponent they normally can't beat. I think that would be fair.


          Still one token to cast it if you can beat your opponent. But can be self-cleansed.
          And effectively 2 tokens to cast it on an opponent you can't beat with Poly + Confuse.


          See how things goes. If Confuse is still overpowered after that, we can see then about reducing the max trigger chance if necessary.
          Last edited by gogoo; 02-16-2020, 05:51 PM.

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          • #6
            Make confuse a 2 token ability.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Doge View Post
              Make confuse a 2 token ability.
              Agreed. I can deal with it in general go, but it sux in 10v battles. Those that use it and poly on me in 10v battle, I run them in plain battle pvp to zero for it.
              But one fact has always remained constant: The Chiss must be approached from a position of strength and respect. One must have strength, for the Chiss will deal only with those capable of keeping their promises. One must have respect, for the Chiss must believe that those promises will be kept."―Passage from Mitth'raw'nuruodo journal

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              • #8
                Originally posted by hansa View Post

                1) a warrior do NOT get a +50% attack bonus using ww
                2) a warrior needs to raise confidence to do high damage, it takes 20 str8 wins to max out confidence with meekah, AND confidence goes down if you lose. 10v10/colo battles are over LONG before any warrior reach a high damage treshold.
                3) confuse IS a game killer, on a personal note it is one of the reasons i have stopped playing in top guilds.100v100/10v10 and now colo has been ruined for many players because of it.
                4) a warrior needs meekah in all load out, to not lose gained confidence fast with 1 hit.
                Everything has pros-cons, I could easily counter argue by saying things like: mages do not inflict damage when confusing, WW has made me stopping playing colo because a team is killed in 30s why one member inflicting 100K total damage in 10 tokens. WW takes damage from neighbors and takes 1 token while fireball takes 2 tokens and a diminished damage to neighbors. My point, comparing pros and cons makes no sense, both are overpowered when we are thinking of big players.

                Examples:
                - Rogue evade is also overpowered with crazy evade rates, as well as intimidate 2 tokens ruin a whole lot of enrage and DF.
                - Clerics mass heal with players healing 5K per hit is crazy overpowered. With chaos gems even more overpowering.
                - What about guard, not only WW, but guard is overpowering warriors and you see impressive guarding numbers.
                - Health should be nerfed in battle with those players over 40K. Health is also overpowered.
                - Everything is overpowered when we go to high levels and that is what makes this game fun.

                As per other ideas:
                - I don´t think the 50% attack boost is game killer. Players with a high confuse % are high level enough that with or without the 50% the furstration will be same.
                - 2 tokens... make 2 tokens the WW too , I don´t agree on nerfing things.

                Basically IMHO balance between classes is a very delicate issue:
                - confuse is "the" most important ability for a mage. Nerfing it would make the class pretty useless
                - confuse used wisely can equal matches, and make lower levels play a role (small one, but role) when facing higher levels.
                - If no mages, or nerfed confuse, the need of clerics is also diminished
                - Any change should promote the need of a balanced guild/team with different classes and different attacks, which is why IMHO the solution is boosting self cleanse, which give value to being both mage and even more to be cleric. If not, this would be a game full of warriors and a pure token drop brute force basis.
                Last edited by namaxe; 02-16-2020, 09:24 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by namaxe View Post

                  Everything has pros-cons, I could easily counter argue by saying things like: mages do not inflict damage when confusing, WW has made me stopping playing colo because a team is killed in 30s why one member inflicting 100K total damage in 10 tokens. WW takes damage from neighbors and takes 1 token while fireball takes 2 tokens and a diminished damage to neighbors. My point, comparing pros and cons makes no sense, both are overpowered when we are thinking of big players.

                  Examples:
                  - Rogue evade is also overpowered with crazy evade rates, as well as intimidate 2 tokens ruin a whole lot of enrage and DF.
                  - Clerics mass heal with players healing 5K per hit is crazy overpowered. With chaos gems even more overpowering.
                  - What about guard, not only WW, but guard is overpowering warriors and you see impressive guarding numbers.
                  - Health should be nerfed in battle with those players over 40K. Health is also overpowered.
                  - Everything is overpowered when we go to high levels and that is what makes this game fun.

                  As per other ideas:
                  - I don´t think the 50% attack boost is game killer. Players with a high confuse % are high level enough that with or without the 50% the furstration will be same.
                  - 2 tokens... make 2 tokens the WW too , I don´t agree on nerfing things.

                  Basically IMHO balance between classes is a very delicate issue:
                  - confuse is "the" most important ability for a mage. Nerfing it would make the class pretty useless
                  - confuse used wisely can equal matches, and make lower levels play a role (small one, but role) when facing higher levels.
                  - If no mages, or nerfed confuse, the need of clerics is also diminished
                  - Any change should promote the need of a balanced guild/team with different classes and different attacks, which is why IMHO the solution is boosting self cleanse, which give value to being both mage and even more to be cleric. If not, this would be a game full of warriors and a pure token drop brute force basis.
                  boy it really is hard to get player playing mage to admit that confuse is overpowered.
                  i give up.
                  and i never say the +50% attack was the game killer, i say the 100% confuse IS the game killer.
                  the +50% attack is just helping it to be it.

                  the warrior skill "focus"(cannot be used whit ww)
                  is a 2 token ability.
                  that give a warrior up to +50% to attack nothing more, mages get this +50% AND the abilty to confuse with 1 token

                  sure make ww a 2 token abilty, but then make it hit 5 players like fireball ;-)

                  make pros and cons in this thread was you starting it, as always wenn players rightfully ***** about confuse killing the game, someone(in this case you) drag warrior into it.
                  ALL warrior skills are easy to counter. and do not stop anyone from having fun in/with the game.
                  (score a winning hit and he confidence goes down,then damage output goes down).
                  Last edited by hansa; 02-17-2020, 09:41 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I like the self cleanse idea. It's not an enormous nerf to mages, it's just a tactical countermeasure. A badly prepped team could still be confused and trounced, but having a cleric with cleanse within a team can counteract the mage. It would actually make things more tactical.

                    Should the cleric start using Divine Favor asap, as usual, or wait to see if the mage is going to confuse? Same for the mage, start confusing straight away, or rage up a bit to make the cleric make a move and waste tokens with nothing left for cleanse?

                    Two tokens per cast suggested above sounded great to me at first, but on reflection I think it would be too big a change. Some players have invested a lot into their mage loadout, and I wouldn't want to see all players punished because of big spenders with 8* Syrens that are cheesing Colosseum. Mages with moderate% confuse don't bother me, you can just chance your way through it then smash them.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No, confuse doesn't need to be nerfed. As namaxe said, confuse is "the" most important ability for a mage & I completely agree with him. Nerfing it would make useless not only ability, but even whole class. Also you need to consider that there are people who invested both their time and money for their mage/confuse loadout and nerfing confuse would ruin their loadout, make their investment pretty useless and it would be totally unfair.

                      I'm really tired from these people who complain about confuse. Nope, it doesn't need to be nerfed. And no, it shouldn't cost 2 tokens. It's perfectly at it's state. Stop suggesting things that don't need to be fixed. All abilities and classes have their pros and cons and devs balanced them perfectly. If you don't like confuse, it's your problem. Learn to counter it. Maybe I also don't like your poison, your whirlwind and etc... Should I whine about them too?
                      Last edited by Ditendra; 02-17-2020, 11:06 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ditendra View Post
                        If you don't like confuse, it's your problem. Learn to counter it.
                        Well there's not much to do when a 100% confuse drops on your and everyone on your team, except hitting through it.

                        I like the idea of making self-dispel 100%, or maybe a hero that boosts dispel to work through confuse (as long as it's not stupid like 1% Masilda)
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ditendra View Post
                          No, confuse doesn't need to be nerfed. As namaxe said, confuse is "the" most important ability for a mage & I completely agree with him. Nerfing it would make useless not only ability, but even whole class. Also you need to consider that there are people who invested both their time and money for their mage/confuse loadout and nerfing confuse would ruin their loadout, make their investment pretty useless and it would be totally unfair.

                          I'm really tired from these people who complain about confuse. Nope, it doesn't need to be nerfed. And no, it shouldn't cost 2 tokens. It's perfectly at it's state. Stop suggesting things that don't need to be fixed. All abilities and classes have their pros and cons and devs balanced them perfectly. If you don't like confuse, it's your problem. Learn to counter it. Maybe I also don't like your poison, your whirlwind and etc... Should I whine about them too?
                          First, the devs haven't done a balance change in what, 6 years? Or maybe they never did any (I wasn't paying attention years ago), even though plenty of things changed (huge amounts of health, huge dmg runes making whirlwing arguably overpowered, the introduction of Layla...).

                          Second, you keep saying Confuse is perfect as it is and doesn't need a nerf, but you actually never give a single argument and you don't answer to those explaining why Confuse is overpowered.
                          You just repeat "Confuse is fine".
                          While plenty of players here are giving very good reasons to explain their point of view on the matter.

                          You're the one that sounds like he doesn't want to get Confuse nerfed because he's benefiting from it as a Mage, without giving any actual argument as to why Confuse is fine.

                          1) For instance in Colosseum, when we say that a Mage can Confuse the whole enemy team and the game is already over because they won't be able to use a single token successfully EVER, can you explain how this is fine and balanced?
                          2) Can you explain how using a single token to essentially remove 5 tokens from an enemy (so with your own 10 tokens you make them waste 50) is balanced and fine? Since at the highest levels all mages have 100% confuse.
                          Especially since there is no counterplay, because even if you have a better build, you're going to be confused because 50% attack bonus is huge.
                          3) And yes, there is no counterplay. Once you're Confused, you're done for the match (in Colosseum and 10v). You simply can't do anything. The match can last the full 20 minutes and you won't be able to touch the opponents once. Can you explain how this is balanced and fine?

                          Can you answer these 3 questions, to begin with?

                          Edit: questions 1 and 3 are pretty much the same - let's say question 3 is about the fact that is no counterplay at all to Confuse.
                          Last edited by gogoo; 02-17-2020, 11:13 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gogoo View Post

                            First, the devs haven't done a balance change in what, 6 years? Or maybe they never did any (I wasn't paying attention years ago), even though plenty of things changed (huge amounts of health, huge dmg runes making whirlwing arguably overpowered, the introduction of Layla...).

                            Second, you keep saying Confuse is perfect as it is and doesn't need a nerf, but you actually never give a single argument and you don't answer to those explaining why Confuse is overpowered.
                            You just repeat "Confuse is fine".
                            While plenty of players here are giving very good reasons to explain their point of view on the matter.

                            You're the one that sounds like he doesn't want to get Confuse nerfed because he's benefiting from it as a Mage, without giving any actual argument as to why Confuse is fine.

                            1) For instance in Colosseum, when we say that a Mage can Confuse the whole enemy team and the game is already over because they won't be able to use a single token successfully EVER, can you explain how this is fine and balanced?
                            2) Can you explain how using a single token to essentially remove 5 tokens from an enemy (so with your own 10 tokens you make them waste 50) is balanced and fine? Since at the highest levels all mages have 100% confuse.
                            Especially since there is no counterplay, because even if you have a better build, you're going to be confused because 50% attack bonus is huge.
                            3) And yes, there is no counterplay. Once you're Confused, you're done for the match (in Colosseum and 10v). You simply can't do anything. The match can last the full 20 minutes and you won't be able to touch the opponents once. Can you explain how this is balanced and fine?

                            Can you answer these 3 questions, to begin with?

                            Edit: questions 1 and 3 are pretty much the same - let's say question 3 is about the fact that is no counterplay at all to Confuse.
                            Scroll up, namaxe perfectly explained everything and answered your questions, there's no reason to repeat them and no, not everyone agrees on the statement that confuse needs to be nerfed. Me & namaxe don't agree with that statement & we also have right on our opinion, we also belong to this community. And what about the players who invested into confuse/mage accounts? Imagine if they nerf and make it useless, what's the point of using it? Have you thought about them? You're the one that sounds like someone who doesn't use confuse and have no idea why it's so important for mages who have Syren as their main general. Confuse doesn't inflict damage and with dispel that needs only one token can be removed easily. Of course if everyone is confused you have hard time to remove it, but it doesn't mean that it's overpowered. By that logic if only one Rogue with high evade and health is remaining and you lose battle because he was evading your damages then in that situation evade is also overpowered. If your team already have low health remaining and have poison applied, then you lose. In that situation poison is overpowered and list goes on and on... Devs that made those abilities made them perfectly. They weren't idiots. All in all, they were devs and knew what they were doing. I think they knew better than you or me what they were doing, don't you think so?

                            Main point is: If you nerf confuse, it becomes useless and whole mage accounts who invested into confuse loadouts (like bought and promoted Syrens, invested resources into her) become useless and ruined, thus it doesn't need to be nerfed. Hope this is enough explanation for you to understand why it doesn't need to be nerfed.
                            Last edited by Ditendra; 02-17-2020, 11:52 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ditendra View Post

                              Scroll up, namaxe perfectly explained everything and answered your questions, there's no reason to repeat them and no, not everyone agrees on the statement that confuse needs to be nerfed. Me & namaxe don't agree with that statement & we also have right on our opinion, we also belong to this community. And what about the players who invested into confuse/mage accounts? Imagine if they nerf and make it useless, what's the point of using it? Have you thought about them? You're the one that sounds like someone who doesn't use confuse and have no idea why it's so important for mages who have Syren as their main general. Confuse doesn't inflict damage and with dispel that needs only one token can be removed easily. Of course if everyone is confused you have hard time to remove it, but it doesn't mean that it's overpowered. By that logic if only one Rogue with high evade and health is remaining and you lose battle because he was evading your damages then in that situation evade is also overpowered. If your team already have low health remaining and have poison applied, then you lose. In that situation poison is overpowered and list goes on and on... Devs that made those abilities made them perfectly. They weren't idiots. All in all, they were devs and knew what they were doing. I think they knew better than you or me what they were doing, don't you think so?

                              Main point is: If you nerf confuse, it becomes useless and whole mage accounts who invested into confuse loadouts (like bought and promoted Syrens, invested resources into her) become useless and ruined, thus it doesn't need to be nerfed. Hope this is enough explanation for you to understand why it doesn't need to be nerfed.
                              but you have no problem with the rest of the player-base who have invested in other classes, that cannot play the game AT ALL, because they are permanently hit with 100% confuse in a battle because of this WAY OVERPOWERED skill?

                              but well i get the last LOL , because this skill on its own, cost the devs 100 usd+ each month i DO NOT spend
                              anymore, because what is the point? all battle formats a basically death.
                              and battle are basically the point of improving most gear/generals.
                              i have no use for that anymore.
                              Last edited by hansa; 02-17-2020, 12:10 PM.

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