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De-Nerfing the Dragon, an outline...

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  • De-Nerfing the Dragon, an outline...

    There seems to be a lot of talk about dragon damage lately. (NOTE: This was originally written when dragons were the only monsters we HAD) No suprise there, really, as they're completely neutered. Taking 6 damage, at the high end, from a creature that could literally pick it's teeth with you, is just plain silly.

    The argument seems to flux back and forth between "dragons need to do more damage" and "more damage would keep low level players from fighting them".

    So here's a possible solution that tries to incorporate all your stats (except energy) into the battle, rather than just stamina...


    Base the chance to recieve a defense assist (0 damage from dragon) on your level -
    Level 1 assist chance = 95%
    +2 levels = -1% assist chance
    Minimum defense assist chance = 5% (levels 180+)
    Modify defense assist - the damage doesn't dissapear, it is transferred to the assister.
    Modify defense assist - instead of coming from a random character, it comes from a random pick of the top 3 damage leaders.


    This lets low level characters have a chance to get in on the fun without getting splattered immediately, but ensures that a level 1 char can't play the odds and solo a dragon right out of the gate. Transferring the damage to whoever provides the defense assist encourages investment in defense, team play, and cooperation between the elder gods of CA and the newest of the noobs. It will also make the other assists (xp, gold, damage) comparatively more likely for those that are doing significant damage than for those who are getting the advantage of defense assists.


    De-nerf your attack stat in dragon battles via the critical hit table -
    Base crit chance = 1%
    +10 Attack = +1% crit chance
    Max crit chance = 45% (attack of 440+)


    This would let the old-school PvP folks with comparatively low stamina and high attack do some serious damage along with those of us that have built a stamina heavy "dragon-killer" character, and enourages everyone to invest in attack. Capping the crit chance at 45% keeps the PvP types from just walking into your keep and dispatching the beast single-handedly...it still takes cooperation, even with Heros in the battle.


    De-nerf your defense stat -
    1 defense = full damage per hit
    5 def = -1 point of damage per hit
    10 def = -2 points of damage per hit / -1 points per assist
    And so on, up to...
    200 def = -20 points mitigated per hit / -10 points per assist.
    Above 200 def, assist mitigation to scales up to -20 points (400 defense+) following a 20/1 ratio.


    This encourages players to invest in defense, especially as they become higher level and start doing more damage and providing more assists. If you dump everything into stamina and start doing large amounts of damage without investing in defense, you are doomed. Not only are you taking damage when you attack, you are in the front lines, and taking damage protecting your weaker comrades behind you. This is also as it should be. The tip of the spear gets pretty roughed up when you stick it into something.


    De-nerf the dragon -
    Dragon attack damage = 5 to 15 points, mitigated by defense stat
    Dragon critical damage = 20 to 30 points, mitigated by defense stat
    Dragon critical chance = 3% per level of dragon (Emerald, 3% - Red, 12%)
    Breath weapon damage = 10 to 15 points to all players, not mitigated by defense
    Breath weapon chance = 10% per 100K damage taken by the dragon


    This makes the dragon something other than a paper tiger. It can kill you, if you are not prepared stat-wise, or don't use cooperation to bring it down. You WILL get your butt handed to you while fighting a dragon, as it should be, but it won't be impossible by any means.


    De-nerf Death -
    If you are eliminated in a dragon battle, you cannot attack it, be attacked by it, or provide defense assists for the next ten hours.

    This, along with the other changes, encourages all players to invest in health as they level up. Having 200 points in stamina, defense, and attack doesn't do you much good if you're dead and on the side-lines after dropping 20 critical hit power attacks on old scaley. If you're dead, as a damge leader and group defender, your team will mourn your absence, even if it is only temporary.


    DISCLAIMER: My character is built for dragon-killing under the current system...200 energy, 150 stam, negligible att/def.
    Last edited by The Lord of the Files; 03-03-2010, 03:57 AM. Reason: disclaimer added, 200+ mitigation scaling added, clean up, battle roster removal,




  • #2
    This sounds very very interesting. I only got to browse it a bit atm, as real life is calling, but it looks well laid out. You've got some good ideas there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very cool idea. I think most agree that Monsters should do more damage. I think your outline is well thought out. I especially would like to see breath weapons. Maybe even unique to color. Green - poison with damage over time; blue - cold instant damage with small wait time to attack again; gold - weakening cone of some sort with lowered damage per hit; and red - fire with large instant damage. Could be fun.

      Anyway, great ideas!
      Last edited by cthulhu522; 10-14-2009, 02:14 PM. Reason: Because I cannot spell.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by cthulhu522 View Post
        ...Green - poison with damage over time; blue - cold instant damage with small wait time to attack again; gold - weakening cone of some sort with lowered damage per hit; and red - fire with large instant damage...

        Nice! That's a cool idea.



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        • #5
          Well there are some other way that could also work, but i like your idea. i was actually thinking with your defensive system and this idea the game may get very interesting. Just an idea...

          All damage done to character after health is diminished to 0 comes from your soldiers..
          example:
          footman 10 hp
          ranger 20 hp
          knight 25hp and so on...

          Something of that nature. Say you took 400 damage and you have 100 hitpoints. Well there is 300 damage left that is sorted out through your army. If you have 200 footman with a total hp of 2000hp. Then you would loose 30 of them. With this new type of battle system i wouldnt go and chain people you would have to actually study your enemy. I also believe that if your attacking a character with no flying creature and your attacking with all flying creature a certain percentage of damage from the flying should be automatic. Unless ground troops can cast spells or shoot bows ie." ranger or wizard".. This would help solve the problem of people saying money is useless and hitpoints are usless. With this type of battle system every stat counts and money is alot more precious.....

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          • #6
            Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
            ...All damage done to character after health is diminished to 0 comes from your soldiers...

            ...With this new type of battle system i wouldnt go and chain people you would have to actually study your enemy....
            You should develop this idea more and start a battle suggestion thread with it. I like it, it's got potential.
            Last edited by The Lord of the Files; 10-14-2009, 03:46 PM.



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            • #7
              Excellent ideas.

              The only hitch I see is that people can invest in all the health they want, but it can be gone within thirty seconds. I lost all my health to a massive chain attacker within five minutes of logging on. So, if I leave a chunk of health to deal with dragons attacks when I am logged off... someone is going to chain that away within moments, and I will still die from dragon attacks. Only thing is, I am not able to attack again for ten hours.

              Also, since this chain attacking thing isn't confined to just my being attacked, there is a good chance that most of an army could be unable to attack for nearly 1/7th of the time... maybe even more depending on their luck. A high priority battle target like myself... high 90's, General... could be out the whole dang battle. I get hit by battlers upwards of 50-75 times a day, as do many others. Even if we win, our health gets drained over time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kim Bradshaw View Post
                The only hitch I see is that people can invest in all the health they want, but it can be gone within thirty seconds. I lost all my health to a massive chain attacker within five minutes of logging on. So, if I leave a chunk of health to deal with dragons attacks when I am logged off...
                Good point. It could be solved if you were removed from the battle roster when you attack a dragon. You're "safely" inside someone's keep after all.



                Comment


                • #9
                  I dont like your idea!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Seth View Post
                    I dont like your idea!
                    SWEET!

                    There's nothing in the world as awesome as thoughtful constructive criticism.
                    Last edited by The Lord of the Files; 10-14-2009, 05:27 PM.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Lord of the Files View Post
                      Good point. It could be solved if you were removed from the battle roster when you attack a dragon. You're "safely" inside someone's keep after all.
                      Which would unfortunately bring us back to the period of time where people couldn't find anyone to fight pvp. This had people kicking and screaming for a fix and caused others to quit, not something we want to reproduce. It's also been brought up before, and I believe the argument for keeping dragon fighters in the battle list went something like this: If you saw your opponent already engaged in battle, would you simply walk away and wait for a fair fight? Nope, you'd sneak in and take what you could while they were distracted. So anyone should be fair game for pvp action, regardless of if they are fighting a dragon or not.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mursilis View Post
                        Which would unfortunately bring us back to the period of time where people couldn't find anyone to fight pvp. This had people kicking and screaming for a fix and caused others to quit, not something we want to reproduce. It's also been brought up before, and I believe the argument for keeping dragon fighters in the battle list went something like this: If you saw your opponent already engaged in battle, would you simply walk away and wait for a fair fight? Nope, you'd sneak in and take what you could while they were distracted. So anyone should be fair game for pvp action, regardless of if they are fighting a dragon or not.
                        Fair enough. That point aside, what do you think of the idea in the original post?
                        Last edited by The Lord of the Files; 10-14-2009, 06:31 PM.



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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Lord of the Files View Post
                          Above 200 def, assist mitigation to scales up to -20 points (400 defense+) following a 20/1 ratio.[/U]
                          I guess I didn't quite understand this part. So assume I have 600 defense, what is my -dmg?

                          In the dmg done by the dragon, why is the breath not mitigated by your defense? Just curious as to the reasoning.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mursilis View Post
                            I guess I didn't quite understand this part. So assume I have 600 defense, what is my -dmg?
                            Defense mitigation caps at 200, giving you a maximum of -20 on damage dealt directly to you by the dragon.

                            Assist mitigation caps at 400 defense, giving you a maximum of -20 on damage you take as a result of providing a defense assist for a weaker player.

                            They are just applied in different situations

                            So at 600 (which is 200 points past the effective cap) you're mitigating 20 points of damage weather the dragon attacks you directly, or you are blocking for another player. For comparison, let's say you defense is only 300; Then you mitigate 20 points when the dragon attacks you, but only 10 points when you provide a defense assist for another player.

                            It's just generally more difficult to effectively deflect an attack that's aimed at someone else in melee combat, as in real life.


                            Originally posted by Mursilis View Post
                            In the dmg done by the dragon, why is the breath not mitigated by your defense? Just curious as to the reasoning.
                            My thinking was twofold; On game mechanics level, there needs to be some existential risk for the "tanks". If they can shrug off the worst that a dragon could throw at them without paying attention to their health, they'll just mow the thing down in no time.

                            On a practical level, it's just more realistic. (Oh god, I can't believe I just said that about a Castle Age idea...) Anyway, no matter how fast, skilled, and prepared a person might be in melee combat, if you drop a thousand pounds of napalm on him, he's going to be in the suck.
                            Last edited by The Lord of the Files; 10-15-2009, 10:32 AM.



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is good!

                              This sounds like it would provide more of a challenge rather than simply clicking the power attack button over and over again. Would be nice to see more player/dragon interaction.
                              I'd also like MAGIC to play a role in how you attack the dragon, defend or even support army members.
                              Listen to my story...

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