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A missing "scaling" in Arena/GB points--why +- 20% of level instead of fixed?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by AnjaFfm View Post

    Feeling like a hamster running in a wheel is often used to describe situations at the work place. Where you get paid for doing so.

    It should not be applicable to situations in your spare time that are supposed to give you pleasure. And which YOU are expected to pay for.

    My sentiments exactly. I've participated actively in each Arena until this one, and have always ended up near the top rank. I accidentally clicked to enter this one (oops) but am sitting at 0 points and will remain there this time.

    Given my work and personal schedule, I did feel like a hamster in Arena 4. To get in my 5 battles a day I would:

    wake up early to join 5 am battle.
    run after collecting from 5am battle
    join 7am battle and them immediately get ready for work (shower, breakfast, etc.)
    Collect from 7am battle and leave for work.

    Work -- so no possibility of battles --

    Get home from work and join 5pm battle a little late
    From then squeeze in personal and family obligations, join 7pm battle, 9pm battle, and then go to sleep after collecting from 9pm battle.

    Bah!

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    • #32
      Yeah, everyone knows grinding sucks I can see there are at least 3 level 1200+s on each top rooms, they all are FP farmers, used to grinding and hardcore daily CA players who spends money as well. 30 out of how many level 1000+ is there? more than top 2% right? They deserved their spots.

      Who knows, maybe they make it a monthly event, skip this one and join whenever you can make the time. But for the OP topic, the underlined issue isn't really +/- 20% scoring.
      Last edited by labalaba; 10-29-2011, 03:10 PM.
      ?!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by labalaba View Post
        Yeah, everyone knows grinding sucks I can see there are at least 3 level 1200+s on each top rooms, they all are FP farmers, used to grinding and hardcore daily CA players who spends money as well. 30 out of how many level 1000+ is there? more than top 2% right? They deserved their spots.
        ......
        Sure they deserved their spots.
        Anybody willing to go through this grueling chore for 3 weeks - and even pay for the pleasure (masochist? *grins*) - is more than welcome to the prizes and the Alpha-whatever rank.

        However, is Arena not supposed to appeal to a broad range of players?
        Or did I get something wrong?

        Fact is that for lvls 1000+ there are not many targets that give us 200 points a pop - for pure statistical reasons. And once you realize that this is a wonderful way for the "devs" to grab money for nothing (= players pay simply to make up the difference), then all you - as a player in this lvl bracket - can say is "naaaaaaaaaaw"

        /edit:
        @LinnieGayl:
        OMG!!! Yeah.. and this is supposed to be fun? Ugh!
        Last edited by AnjaFfm; 10-29-2011, 03:24 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by AnjaFfm View Post
          @LinnieGayl:
          OMG!!! Yeah.. and this is supposed to be fun? Ugh!
          yes, Arena 4 wasn't remotely fun by the end. I realized it more when it ended, and I felt as if I had my life back. I can't say how much more I'm enjoying NOT being in the grind this time.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Naga View Post
            Psh! That's because you're low level dude!

            EDIT: but yes, valid point re: they could hit down nearly 305 levels bit. The "Even trade" bit is not valid because there are many many more 200 and 160s than 240s.

            SPs dried up fast at this altitude, when devs are not releasing new quests it's pretty much 5 / level.

            Thomasj... did I sense some kneejerk reaction here? Nobody's surprised and nobody's asking for sympathy. I think Anja has said exactly what I wanted to say about this, above ^
            Ok I'm kind off a low level and I don't think 418 is low considering I've been a daily player without fp refilling. SP dried up fast? No, it didn't and never will if and when I ever finish all the quest It will still take me anywhere from 3 to 4 days to level so 8 or 9 sp per level minimum.
            TheMonkeyKing ☠Ⓦ☠Ⓑ☠ landed a CRITICAL HIT on Vargulis's Right Wing hitting them for an UNGODLY amount of Damage[61,397,665]!
            200 stamina Ultimate Mode
            Lvl80 5 Star Malekus** Lvl74 6 Star Dolomar Lvl79 5 Star Monkey King

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            • #36
              This isn't just about Arena. This discussion is regarding the points split in Guild Battles in general--which could potentially benefit if the Devs do another GB-style Arena.

              Originally posted by Naga View Post
              Hmmm, how about if the fix range is for the 240, and -20% for the 160?

              I get your point, and I think you're right, because for level 1000+, the number of 240s population is vanishingly small compared to the number of 160s population. So as long as it's symmetric then it's "unfair"/harder for them, I agree.

              But you do agree that the requirement of +20% for 240 is making it even more unfair for the high levels, don't you?
              A -20%/+100-levels split on for 160/240 is an interesting idea. Would it start at a particular level (say 500) or would it be across the board no matter what level so that a level 100 would have to beat a level 200 to get 240 points?

              I remember when we'd pull an autobattle against a guild with even one unicorn, it was cause for our higher levels to celebrate.

              Then of course, there's a couple guilds that composed entirely of high level players. I can only imagine the rush to get the 200/240 point targets when they manage to pull such opponents.
              I would never suggest limiting the levels of players in guilds in any way that restricts player choices, especially since I know that people like to play with others who play similarly; however, I would like to encourage some of the 1k+ to consider the benefits of dividing the competition by moving to guilds which are predominantly lower level.
              (Sorry if this has typos or doesn't make a lot of sense. I was interrupted about ten times while typing it.)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Trigun Titan View Post
                Ok I'm kind off a low level and I don't think 418 is low considering I've been a daily player without fp refilling. SP dried up fast? No, it didn't and never will if and when I ever finish all the quest It will still take me anywhere from 3 to 4 days to level so 8 or 9 sp per level minimum.
                I mean SP dried up fast when you've reached level 1000+. Hey, I went through level 400, 500, 600 too, kay I know that there were many SPs to be had per level in that range.

                And I did not mean "low level" as a diss to you in any way--I apologize if I gave you this impression. I was just stating the fact that I experienced myself when I was level 400+.
                Feel The Black Dread: ΒΛŁΞɌΙΘΠ ☣CAIN☣

                (September 2011) Battles/Wars Won 96534
                (December 11, 2011) Battles/Wars Won 104449

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                • #38
                  Levels 300 to 500 are the prime.

                  By level 300 you're past the basics, have achieved a lot, and you're still leveling at good speed and gaining lots each level. Adding to any stat can provide meaningful gains. By 500 you're past all the easily available stuff and slowdown is getting to you. Each level is harder to get to, each sp requires more energy (if questing) or stamina (gold medals, bigger monster achievements). And adding to stats isn't about one sp or five sp - to get meaningful increase takes a lot more than it used to.

                  On level 400 things may look really great. If you're slow leveling (not refilling, not pure PL build) it'll be a year before you reach 500. But if you already are past 500, you probably have refilled. The higher the more refills. And the less sp per level, the less sp to be found anymore, the more activity it takes to gain those extra sp, the bigger the adds to stats to get meaningul gains. You might still get 6sp/level on average. Maybe.

                  If you have 10sp/level on 300 (for 3k total), and continue gaining 9sp/level for the next 60 (for 540sp = +18%sp / +20% level). From 1k to 1.2k it'll be more like 8k -> 9.2k sp, or +15% sp / +20% level. Thus, 20% higher level is a lot more on low levels than on high levels. Of course the same downwards.


                  If breakpoints are considered, I think level 500 fits quite well.
                  WARNING: THE POST ABOVE MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR IRONY!

                  Elandal [FIN] ΛĢ 8218DD

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                  • #39
                    It really depends on CA population, consider it looks like a curve bell.

                    Target: level 2000 for 240 points
                    -20%/20% levels = Hit by 1666 and below = Hits level 2400 and above
                    -20%/100 levels = Hit by 1900 and below = Hits level 2100 and above

                    Changing the upper range also means anyone 100 levels lower can hit us too.
                    Fixed range will multiply more people who can hit you more than the rest population you can hit.

                    That's where it gets unbalanced, the question is:
                    Does levels 2100-2400 has more population than levels 1666-1900?

                    or if it's too high level, let's ask the level 1000s:
                    Does levels 1100-1200 has more population than levels 833-900?

                    We have always been able to manipulate guild setups if you just want points for regular GB,
                    but in random setup like Arena, this question should be answered first.
                    Last edited by labalaba; 10-30-2011, 11:55 PM.
                    ?!

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                    • #40
                      I complete a quest realm every month or so... so far I'm in my 500's and I still have hundreds of quest sp's to look forward too...
                      | Some noob, noobing about. Chain me |
                      | Keep Links | FaceBook or Web3 |
                      | The Unicorn Gym |

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                      • #41
                        Hi Naga, surprise to see you here but I just signed up and curious abt what the peeps are talking abt...I guess that's the problem with leveling up too fast for a ton of people, does not get the 240 desired on guild battles/arena

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Duchess Simone View Post
                          Hi Naga, surprise to see you here but I just signed up and curious abt what the peeps are talking abt...I guess that's the problem with leveling up too fast for a ton of people, does not get the 240 desired on guild battles/arena
                          I think the underlying problem is larger than that... I think the underlying problem is that Castle Age as a game is designed to give you progressively worse experience the more money you put in.

                          To take one example that has been discussed to death: how impotent is a non-refilling level 1000 against a non-refilling level 300... in hitting monsters. The latter would keep hitting and leveling up and the former is shambling along at the same 1 every 5 mins stamina.

                          To take another example from games like mafia wars 2: yes as a high level it's harder for you to level. But you also can kill the same enemy in one shot now, so you need less energy to achieve the same thing. Whereas Marian still needs perhaps 50 hits to kill me even when she's level 6000.

                          Now put this together with the increasing requirement to level up, then you can see the trend--something that Anja has explained at length as well. It's everywhere in CA.

                          Basically, the "bad" things that come from leveling up are there... But unlike in other better designed game, the "good" things that come up from leveling are mostly missing.
                          Feel The Black Dread: ΒΛŁΞɌΙΘΠ ☣CAIN☣

                          (September 2011) Battles/Wars Won 96534
                          (December 11, 2011) Battles/Wars Won 104449

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Naga View Post
                            I think the underlying problem is larger than that... I think the underlying problem is that Castle Age as a game is designed to give you progressively worse experience the more money you put in.

                            To take one example that has been discussed to death: how impotent is a non-refilling level 1000 against a non-refilling level 300... in hitting monsters. The latter would keep hitting and leveling up and the former is shambling along at the same 1 every 5 mins stamina.

                            To take another example from games like mafia wars 2: yes as a high level it's harder for you to level. But you also can kill the same enemy in one shot now, so you need less energy to achieve the same thing. Whereas Marian still needs perhaps 50 hits to kill me even when she's level 6000.

                            Now put this together with the increasing requirement to level up, then you can see the trend--something that Anja has explained at length as well. It's everywhere in CA.

                            Basically, the "bad" things that come from leveling up are there... But unlike in other better designed game, the "good" things that come up from leveling are mostly missing.
                            But surely the higher you go in the game the harder it should be? I agree some things are missing from levelling, most games give a free FP (or equivalent in that game) but killing easier because you've advanced more shouldn't be one or it would just drive away all those below and you'd soon get people moaning they can't advance in FD's as everyone is dead from 1 and 2 hits. On the 240 it's lazy programming as it's done by % but it has a plus that the higher your level the plateau of 200's increases hugely.
                            nothing to festival/conquest duel link here fill ya boots cheating is tolerated now

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                            • #44
                              Soft caps are the norm, not the exception in RPGs. 20% instead of fixed simply makes more sense since 1) the random swing is in %, and 2) the same reason we use BSI.

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