Not everyone reads the forum:

[Punkle]

I had actually been wondering if forum members could not have done more to prevent friends from stumbling and falling for the exploit link. Could we not have helped spread the news through our walls and to our groups and guilds that the link was not legitimate? Warn our friends not to click it? In this way, I wonder if the forum regulars did not somehow fail their armies.

I know many of you did post and warn just that, but it seems that in general there was a lack of communication between players-in-the-know and those that did-not-know-better.

I tried to tell some.. Most didn't care, some laffed and some de-friended and blocked me
Now im sending the horns to all i know cheated to rub it in

[VampireJames]

I tried to tell some.. Most didn't care, some laffed and some de-friended and blocked me
Now im sending the horns to all i know cheated to rub it in

I did the same thing

[WhiteWidow]

Sab,
I came in here once when i had been playing a month or so. I even had an account from waaaaaay back that I couldnt remember the name to when i did come back in here (which ticks me off as i could have an "older starting date" on if i could have remembered it, lol).

I was "horrified" by the threads i read; "Come chain me you big meanie," "I am going to chain you troll."

I had no idea that they were friends talking to each other, lol. I thought, as I was told by other MH's: "Stay far far away from the forums, nothing but big mean pvp bullies in there. If you post, they will chain you forever."

It is true that people are told that every single day and so they are terrified to come in here , I was. Afraid that if i even lurked, you super mean bullies would somehow sniff out my presence and come chain me out of the game for looking in here

I never came back after that first time until Lux and Barry/Aki told me it was actually safe in here, lol.

You big old mean pvp bullies, lol!

But, as DoR says.. could we have helped more? I posted a warning in most groups i am in and on my status. I told everyone that would listen that if they had clicked on the link, to turn themselves into the devs.

Do you know what I got for it? A bunch of PvPers clicking "like" on my status.. and argument after argument after argument in the groups i posted in

Lost a few "friends" too. Well, they can bite me (and some can as they are MUCH bigger than me, lol). A few people that wrote me in panic did turn themselves in and did not suffer for it, so to me.. it was worth losing some old "friends."

[Anisixia]

My assessment stands: Anyone who comes here using that argument is using it disingenuously.

I'll kindly disagree. I started playing about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. I didn't start lurking here until maybe 6-7 months ago. I am woefully ignorant in context to most people in here who are of lower (as well as higher) lvl than I because even lurking, I spent my time in the game rather than here and, if here, I was searching, not reading current events and what not. You presume your usage is a reflection of everyone's, and patently, it is not.

[Death of Rats]

If your suggesting they are liars before they even get here it's hardly a glowing reference for them to join.

Although I don't think think you actually mean't they are liars maybe you should word things better?Though saying that most would of heard about the fa-roar in the forums, I seen it posted a few times on my wall.

The whole situation of good versus evil (smart/informed versus stupid/silly/naive/ignorant) that this has disintegrated in to, is masking the shocking fact that the game is/has been easily hacked/manipulated by those that can and even banning these people doesn't stop them from passing on how seemingly easily they do it.

Hopefully the Devs have closed this hole in security completely and are looking to close any future possible holes, that for me (and the players) would be the biggest win of this whole matter.

Pooh posted that he spent a good deal of time helping the Devs yesterday to close up those holes and to try to find others, so hopefully, while there is no 100%, it will not be such an easy feat to repeat.

[Elandal]

During the Hero Potion Fiasco I chatted with around 50 people total. Of them I know two have forum accounts, although one doesn't use it. During the whole time, including fixes, dev responses, and so on, four told they came here to read stuff. I'll assume some of them just didn't mention it, which leaves maybe 40 out of 50 who do not have forum account, do not visit forum, not even when they're told there's discussion about the exploit going on.
In addition, I saw posts and comments by 100+ people indicating they're totally utterly clueless and gullible, and that they wouldn't know a forum even if it was embedded in CA "Home" tab.

It's of course possible that >90% of CA players shouldn't be playing games on the internet. But the clueless casuals STILL make up the majority of playerbase. Forumites are a very small but very vocal minority, fanboys to the extreme. They chain the cactus, they tap the keeps, they spam, they troll, they create spreadsheets, minmax stats, and in all possible ways take the game to extremes.

They are, however, influencers in the CA player community. They're "in the know" (even if it in case of CA support forums means "are guessing what the lack of dev response means this time"), and they talk to other players.
Even then, they're mostly preaching to the choir. I talk with guildies. We're a leaderboard guild, not the thirteenth in a dozen. Certainly we aren't a Top Guild, but at least the guild members have committed to things like festival guild battles and whatever. COMMITTED. They aren't casuals by any stretch of an imagination.

I don't even try to reach to casuals. I may post to a few groups, but even members of those groups are probably more of gamers than casuals. And it's not even my duty to inform players of something the devs haven't even commented on.
IF THE DEVS WANT SOMETHING KNOWN, THEY WILL POST AN IN-GAME ANNOUNCEMENT. If they don't, it's not MY fault, and it's not the fault of any forumite, or any player. The devs simply are not interested in making something known.

So, SDHawk, you're saying that nobody who isn't committed fully to the game should play it? Hubris?


I'll try to make a couple of points here, as it seems that this thread is "important" and not spammy like the rest of them.

#1) The devs STILL DO NOT COMMUNICATE with players. They got information regarding the link, and had time to verify it and post a simple

We're aware of a cheat in the form of a link that gives you Hero Potions. We're investigating it, and will ban any cheaters.

Players, knowing that there's a cheat and the devs are going to ban users, will think a few more times before clicking. No more wildfire spread of link use.

#2) The players still do not trust the devs to actually punish cheaters. 100% of the responses I got from anyone who had been explained the link was "the devs aren't going to do anyway, and if it's widespread like this, they can't do anything" and so everyone used it. EVERY ONE I talked with.

#3) Phoenix Age has no development process, no code quality, no testing, no QA, no nothing. CA is a hack on a hack on a hack.
While I can't blame devs specifically for this particular bug, I can say that there's absolutely no reason for this bug to exist, as it's just about checking the inputs. Any test case would've caught it. Any development process would've required testing, code review, audit, or something like that. If they don't get an external auditor to do a cursory security audit over CA design and implementation, it's simply because THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT QUALITY.


Put together, the picture is really ugly. Why should I have any respect at all for CA devs? Gross incompetence, mismanagement, if it happens in one area, it almost certainly permeats the whole company.

Is Phoenix Age going to actually do something this time? Are we going to get actual communication from the company? Are they going to present evidence of going beyond the rote of "we'll really really really do something this time"? Are they going to do something to security? Are they going to ban actual cheaters and exploiters? Are they going to have backups, logs, and ability to find out things in the future? Are they going to look for cheaters like they should instead of taking reports from players and not acting on them?


Sure, players are to blame for some things too. Like taking advantage of the situation. But don't try to shift the blame: blame sits on company first and foremost, not on the players.

[Kuko]

During the Hero Potion Fiasco I chatted with around 50 people total. Of them I know two have forum accounts, although one doesn't use it. During the whole time, including fixes, dev responses, and so on, four told they came here to read stuff. I'll assume some of them just didn't mention it, which leaves maybe 40 out of 50 who do not have forum account, do not visit forum, not even when they're told there's discussion about the exploit going on.
In addition, I saw posts and comments by 100+ people indicating they're totally utterly clueless and gullible, and that they wouldn't know a forum even if it was embedded in CA "Home" tab.

It's of course possible that >90% of CA players shouldn't be playing games on the internet. But the clueless casuals STILL make up the majority of playerbase. Forumites are a very small but very vocal minority, fanboys to the extreme. They chain the cactus, they tap the keeps, they spam, they troll, they create spreadsheets, minmax stats, and in all possible ways take the game to extremes.

They are, however, influencers in the CA player community. They're "in the know" (even if it in case of CA support forums means "are guessing what the lack of dev response means this time"), and they talk to other players.
Even then, they're mostly preaching to the choir. I talk with guildies. We're a leaderboard guild, not the thirteenth in a dozen. Certainly we aren't a Top Guild, but at least the guild members have committed to things like festival guild battles and whatever. COMMITTED. They aren't casuals by any stretch of an imagination.

I don't even try to reach to casuals. I may post to a few groups, but even members of those groups are probably more of gamers than casuals. And it's not even my duty to inform players of something the devs haven't even commented on.
IF THE DEVS WANT SOMETHING KNOWN, THEY WILL POST AN IN-GAME ANNOUNCEMENT. If they don't, it's not MY fault, and it's not the fault of any forumite, or any player. The devs simply are not interested in making something known.

So, SDHawk, you're saying that nobody who isn't committed fully to the game should play it? Hubris?


I'll try to make a couple of points here, as it seems that this thread is "important" and not spammy like the rest of them.

#1) The devs STILL DO NOT COMMUNICATE with players. They got information regarding the link, and had time to verify it and post a simple

We're aware of a cheat in the form of a link that gives you Hero Potions. We're investigating it, and will ban any cheaters.

Players, knowing that there's a cheat and the devs are going to ban users, will think a few more times before clicking. No more wildfire spread of link use.

#2) The players still do not trust the devs to actually punish cheaters. 100% of the responses I got from anyone who had been explained the link was "the devs aren't going to do anyway, and if it's widespread like this, they can't do anything" and so everyone used it. EVERY ONE I talked with.

#3) Phoenix Age has no development process, no code quality, no testing, no QA, no nothing. CA is a hack on a hack on a hack.
While I can't blame devs specifically for this particular bug, I can say that there's absolutely no reason for this bug to exist, as it's just about checking the inputs. Any test case would've caught it. Any development process would've required testing, code review, audit, or something like that. If they don't get an external auditor to do a cursory security audit over CA design and implementation, it's simply because THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT QUALITY.


Put together, the picture is really ugly. Why should I have any respect at all for CA devs? Gross incompetence, mismanagement, if it happens in one area, it almost certainly permeats the whole company.

Is Phoenix Age going to actually do something this time? Are we going to get actual communication from the company? Are they going to present evidence of going beyond the rote of "we'll really really really do something this time"? Are they going to do something to security? Are they going to ban actual cheaters and exploiters? Are they going to have backups, logs, and ability to find out things in the future? Are they going to look for cheaters like they should instead of taking reports from players and not acting on them?


Sure, players are to blame for some things too. Like taking advantage of the situation. But don't try to shift the blame: blame sits on company first and foremost, not on the players.

I agree with THIS.

and all of you riding high horse, stop f..... doing it, and act like adults, at least one of you who are over 21, things never are black-and-white only, nor in real life neither in a game

[Matezma]

Well said Kuko and Elendal.

[hetejorn]

In the end, currently it's all about pointing the finger. Wether it's Elendal (and players) pointing the finger at Phoenix Age, or Devs, mods and other players pointing at th cheating players. "things never are black-and-white only, nor in real life neither in a game", That's not what Elendal is saying, nor what SD is saying.

I can repeat myself, saying look in the mirror, but I guess everyone rather keep talking in circles, prferably in about three threads at a time...

Please chain me...

[RawrGiovanni]

I've played this game for 5 months or so before realizing how helpful were, but I don't check in here before i start playing and only come here if there is an update and no in game newsfeed about it.

oh and to add more to my army slowly to get that 1200 festival achievment and help on monsters.

[oO☼ﬞ Tricᶄsy-TriӾie ☼ﬞOo]

>snip< edited for space .[/QUOTE]

Lotta good stuff in that post. Most of which I agree with. Yes, I did read it all. Unfortunately, most of it either doesn't have anything to do with what I said, or somehow you got something out of my post that I didn't say, or even infer. Couple examples:

During the Hero Potion Fiasco I chatted with around 50 people total. Of them I know two have forum accounts, although one doesn't use it. During the whole time, including fixes, dev responses, and so on, four told they came here to read stuff. I'll assume some of them just didn't mention it, which leaves maybe 40 out of 50 who do not have forum account, do not visit forum, not even when they're told there's discussion about the exploit going on.

I agreed that many people may not have an account, but I simply do not buy that they don't come here to read stuff. Maybe they don't, but even then, the response that they didnt understand that this was an illegitimate link can hardly be blamed on the fact that they don't come here. Nor can that be a legitimate reason for any of the other things for which I have seen that response. however, it is still used as a response, quite a bit.

So, SDHawk, you're saying that nobody who isn't committed fully to the game should play it? Hubris?

How the hell did you get that out of anything I said? In fact, have you ever seen a post from me, here or anywhere else, that would lead you to think i believe this?

Sure, players are to blame for some things too. Like taking advantage of the situation. But don't try to shift the blame: blame sits on company first and foremost, not on the players.

Again, have you ever seen a post from me which would indicate to you that I blame anyone? I don't condone exploiting the link. I don't condone using any illegitimate means of getting ahead in this game. But where have you seen that blame the players over the devs? I do try to give the devs the benefit of the doubt, hard as they make that sometimes.

The rest of your post I pretty much agree with.

[Anisixia]

I agreed that many people may not have an account, but I simply do not buy that they don't come here to read stuff.

That is a problem then. I think the majority, in fact, do not, and those that lurk, are either searching for something specific, or are not willing to read into a 100 page thread of a seemingly closed community group.

Maybe they don't, but even then, the response that they didnt understand that this was an illegitimate link can hardly be blamed on the fact that they don't come here. Nor can that be a legitimate reason for any of the other things for which I have seen that response. however, it is still used as a response, quite a bit.

It can when many others are using that argument as a basis for understanding that the link was bad. And yes, actually, it can, because pf the proliferation of other links that are not currently in-game and that are all over the net and are passed out freely, constantly. Need an old general by chance? I'm not giving a blanket pass, but neither am I giving a blanket condemnation. That's the issue that is tearing people up right now.

[Asulgard]

I'll kindly disagree. I started playing about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. I didn't start lurking here until maybe 6-7 months ago. I am woefully ignorant in context to most people in here who are of lower (as well as higher) lvl than I because even lurking, I spent my time in the game rather than here and, if here, I was searching, not reading current events and what not. You presume your usage is a reflection of everyone's, and patently, it is not.

Nope.. You are lying. If you started about 1 year ago then you were lurking the forums for 6 months before you joined the forums.

I am 100% sure because SDHawk said so.. So you are lying!!!! Cheater!!!!

/sarcasm

[hetejorn]

That is a problem then. I think the majority, in fact, do not, and those that lurk, are either searching for something specific, or are not willing to read into a 100 page thread of a seemingly closed community group.




It can when many others are using that argument as a basis for understanding that the link was bad. And yes, actually, it can, because pf the proliferation of other links that are not currently in-game and that are all over the net and are passed out freely, constantly. Need an old general by chance? I'm not giving a blanket pass, but neither am I giving a blanket condemnation. That's the issue that is tearing people up right now.

Old arguments

[Unique1267]

I am so tired of hearing this argument.

Threads: 47,029, Posts: 1,106,230, Members: 165,896, Active Members: 6,474
Welcome to our newest member, Sandra Gurney

so we have 166,000 members. What do you say the ratio is on word-of-mouth exposure? 10 to 1?

just about every single game I have ever checked out on FB has a forum. When I find a game that I like to play(barring bejeweled, solitaire, wheel of fortune, etc...and I have a question, I find the forum, and go read or ask questions.

If anyone who has more than a passing interest in this game says they have never been here, I just flat out will not believe them. I can believe that they have not bothered to make an account and post, but I will never believe that they have never been here.

If they have played this game for more than a month, I will guarantee they have been here. They certainly know how to find the place when they want a monster, now don't they? So anyone who found this link given them, and did not at least come here to check on the situation, in my opinion, has no business playing on the internet.

Now, especially right now, I will be the first to say that the devs responses to things are spotty at best, and that people coming here for answers may or may not get the answer directly from a dev, but for 99% of the things legitimately released from them, you will find a post about it in Vulcan's News Forum. if you cant, then you will likely find a thread about it on the general, with some info from long-time players who are prolly the next best thing, and can point you in the right direction, at the very least.

So this argument is one that has been way overused, and it has absolutely no legitimacy at all, and I wish people would stop being disingenuous by continuing to use it.

Thank you

Ahh where to start .. I agree with a lot of what you said but I also disagree with some as well. YES this arguement is way overused. Definitely.

Yes I would also say a huge percentage that has more than passing interest in a game will at least check/read the forums. However a huge percentage will not bother either. Forums are often times hard to navigate to find the answer you are looking for. Search feature imho is just horrid in forums.

Lets use me as an example, I personally joined this forum approx 4 mo's after I started playing. The ONLY reason I even bothered to look at forums was to post help for a monster my wife had summoned. Since that time I have come here occasionally to read. But not everyone does. There are some games I played daily for whole year before looking at forum and/or wiki, and normally then its because I am upset at some part of the game and fed up with it all. I generally will go to wiki's first for info about a game, and I am sure others will too. A lot will just rely on their gaming buddies for help/info without using either forums or wiki.

The part you stated in bold is the thing I disagree with the most. Seriously You do NOT need to ever look at forums to play a game or as you imply know how to navigate through and use the internet. PLEASE.

I do not think it is wise (in fact I would say its foolish and stupid) to blindly click on links for game help, but it tends to be the nature of how facebook is set up and one can easily just get in habit of clicking on links. Do you really think every time someone sees a different type of game link they will come to forums first .. uhm sorry but nope. Should they? Maybe. Should they have realized this link was fishy looking .. probably, and if so then yes they should have gone to wiki and forums to look into it. But if they were not actually looking at it but just blindly clicking (stupidly as I stated above) it is very easy to do.

The people who did just blindly click, while it might have been stupid, nonetheless I can not fault and or call them cheater. IF they did not have the required amount of eggs, then most definitely I agree they should have realized at that time that something was fishy (even though if they took time to look at it they would have known prior to clicking). However there are several like me whom fight other peoples monster and rarely summon my own, plus fact I send/get eggs all time for FP hunters. So I actually have more than enough eggs. Bingo they just fell into trap of exploiting a game naively.

But I do agree this arguement is way overused, a lot of people were asking for eggs and all those I asked about it knew why they were, none of these people read the forums btw. It is word of mouth and getting info from their gaming buddies. So just because they did not look at forums, I would still say yes this arguement is just a lame excuse and being used. However I will also say I have the luxury of knowing some people in the know and I do read the forums and wiki occasionally so I knew right away this was an exploit and warned all my friends against using it. But not everyone has this luxury and/or takes advantage of it. I think the dev's realize this too going by their posts on how they are handling this situation so far.