I'm Confused! [ATK/DEF of items]

[DaGent]

Ok... so I thought I understood the fact that when you are attacking monsters or dueling... you take your items with your highest ATK points in order to do the most damage...

Well I just finished up the world of water and I was lucky enough to get an amulet of Cefka (6 ATK and 12 DEF). Up until I got this amulet I had been using the Jewel of Fire (7 ATK 6 DEF)

Now all of a sudden I'm using the Cefka amulet over the Jewel.... Why?
Amulet : Amulet of Cefka [+6 damage]

According to what I thought was right... this is wrong. Someone clarify!?!?

[Lacuna]

I was switched from Jewel of fire to Cefka's, too.
That's because attacking a monster now works like duelling someone.
And in duels, you'll fight with your best general equiped with the items with the best overall stats.

Cefka's might have 1 point less attack than JoF, but several points more defense. Therefore, it's the stronger item of both.

[Angelo]

I was going to launch into a big spiel about how it's possible that Atk/Def stats get combined to form a single total stat, but it suddenly occurred to me that, when choosing which item to use, the computer probably takes into account that the defensive stat on the item prevents damage done by the defender. So even though it does less damage, it also prevents the defender from doing more damage, thus lending more towards victory.

Not sure why I didn't realize that before lol

You know what they say, the best offense is a good defense.

[Lacuna]

I was going to launch into a big spiel about how it's possible that Atk/Def stats get combined to form a single total stat, but it suddenly occurred to me that, when choosing which item to use, the computer probably takes into account that the defensive stat on the item prevents damage done by the defender. So even though it does less damage, it also prevents the defender from doing more damage, thus lending more towards victory.

Not sure why I didn't realize that before lol

You know what they say, the best offense is a good defense.

My point exactly. It's total stats which count, cause fighting monsters now basically works like a duel. And therefore defense reduces damage taken by you.

As long as one item has the total higher stats, it will be picked. That there's one with lower stats that does more damage is irrelevant.

I'm just being curious, but what would happen if two items had the same total stats, but different attack/def ratios.
For example
Item A: 2/8
Item B: 9/1
Which one would be picked? Would it be based on what role (attacker or being attacked) you play?

[Frederick]

I'm just being curious, but what would happen if two items had the same total stats, but different attack/def ratios.
For example
Item A: 2/8
Item B: 9/1
Which one would be picked? Would it be based on what role (attacker or being attacked) you play?

Based upon my experience, if attacking, Item B would be picked.

[Angelo]

I'm just being curious, but what would happen if two items had the same total stats, but different attack/def ratios.
For example
Item A: 2/8
Item B: 9/1
Which one would be picked? Would it be based on what role (attacker or being attacked) you play?

I'd say it depends on the way that damage in battle is calculated, which yeah, probably depends on what role you play. Are offensive stats given equal value for damaging your attack if your defending as to when your attacking, or does it not factor? Part of me wants to say that being the aggressor/defender is irrelevant, but part of me also seems to think that stats are definitely calculated differently depending on the role you play.
Otherwise, how could you get attacked by someone, lose, then turn around and attack them and win, assuming that it the results aren't close and the battle could have gone either way?

EDIT- just did some reading and I believe this is, in fact correct, so for the items you listed, I believe that the one with the higher attack would be used as the aggressor, and the one with higher defense would be the offender. This is assuming that other players are correct in their assumptions. I haven't really found any hard researched evidence yet, mostly just assumptions, but I'll keep looking.

[DaGent]

You know what they say, the best offense is a good defense.

Uhm no the quote is A best defense is a good offense!


I don't care what my DEF stats are when attacking a monster I want MAXIMUM ATK points. The more damage I do the less stamina I have to burn to inflict it!

If the monster hits me harder fine... so be it I'll go heal. I would much more prefer a Bezerker style stat system than an attempt at a balanced or Defender one!

As far as Dueling and Invading goes... YES ok it makes more sence... but for monsters ATTACK POWER is at the top of my list.

[Angelo]

Uhm no the quote is A best defense is a good offense!


I don't care what my DEF stats are when attacking a monster I want MAXIMUM ATK points. The more damage I do the less stamina I have to burn to inflict it!

If the monster hits me harder fine... so be it I'll go heal. I would much more prefer a Bezerker style stat system than an attempt at a balanced or Defender one!

As far as Dueling and Invading goes... YES ok it makes more sence... but for monsters ATTACK POWER is at the top of my list.

This is true. When attacking a monster, you don't "win" or "lose". Hmmm...perhaps in that case the two stats are, in fact, combined to form a single numerical amount?

Like a 20atk/10def item would calculate as having a value of 25 when you attack a monster? Bearing in mind this are all arbitrary numbers and only just hypothesis.

[windhawk]

As far as attacking goes, I've studied some battle results - and have come to this conclusion (which may be used in the game for all kinds of battles):

Attacking force for an object/general is 100% of the attack score plus 70% of the defense score.

When defending it is 100% of the defense score plus 70% of the attack score.

Alternatively, attack and defence scores are made up by a 60/40 divition model. I/e when attacking attack score counts 60% and defense score 40, when defending defence score counts 60% and attack force 40%.

[DaGent]

As far as attacking goes, I've studied some battle results - and have come to this conclusion (which may be used in the game for all kinds of battles):

Attacking force for an object/general is 100% of the attack score plus 70% of the defense score.

When defending it is 100% of the defense score plus 70% of the attack score.

Alternatively, attack and defence scores are made up by a 60/40 divition model. I/e when attacking attack score counts 60% and defense score 40, when defending defence score counts 60% and attack force 40%.

Isn't this an odd way to go about things though? When attacking you can't be defending (well most units can't) So why not use a formula where when I attack... my attack points are solely used in the calculation.. and when the monster attacks back (or I'm defending invasion or a duel) my defense stats are the sole use of calculation?