clarify about Barbarus

[Batw]

“Dolomar vs Barbarus is the old “Bird in hand vs birds in the bush” argument (bird in hand has zero variance with birds in the bush have variance aka Barbarus [after being charged up] gives a fixed dmg buff while Dolomar is bird in hand, it’s critical buff is only valuable when it shows up). This STUPID debate being going on since 2014 when I first joined because people don’t understand variance and basic portfolio theory.”

Want to correct a typo:
- Barbarus is “bird in hand” because after being charged up, you max the fixed damage buff
- Dolomar is “bird in the bush” because critical dmg hit is not guaranteed

No one is disputing Dolomar will have higher dmg per stamina (eg higher EV) but:
- higher damage per stamina comes with variance
- higher damage could also mean over-damage, which is waste. If you only needed 2 million damage remaining for a legendary drop, getting a 16 million damage off a critical is a waste (because 14 million net damage or over-damage is useless for that mob, especially in the case of Demon Chimera). Dolomar can result in a lot waste.

[Batw]

I’ve maxed out maalvus at level 80 with 4 stars, giving me 20% crit hit chances. I use him as a secondary because of his superior att/def. If I were to use therian, I would get good monster attack, but maalvus does both crit hit chance and high att/def power. That means I get to use my barborus as my main gem in an alliance for the same reason as mentioned before in this thread. Finally, that leaves demon warrior as the third gen in the alliance. He is essential and I don’t know of a better gen to put in that third spot because he’s so valuable.

People on the forum didn’t understand variance in 2014 and people on the forum still don’t understand variance in 2023. Then people don’t understand variance in a portfolio with 3 assets aka 3 monster hunting generals in an alliance.

The Expected Value of a portfolio is its weight average return, eg weighted-avg dmg per stamina.

The Expected Variance of a portfolio IS NOT the weight average of the variance. You need to include covariance effects.

See this link: https://www.wallstreetmojo.com/portf...iance-formula/

The variance of 3 assets is:

“Again, the variance can be further extended to a portfolio of more no. of assets; for instance, a 3-asset portfolio can be represented as,

Portfolio variance formula = w₁²* ơ₁²+ w₂²* ơ₂² + w₃²* ơ₃² + 2 * ρ_1,2 * w₁ * w₂ * ơ₁ * ơ₂ + 2 * ρ_2,3 * w₂ * w₃ * ơ₂ * ơ₃ + 2 * ρ_3,1 * w₃ * w₁ * ơ₃ * ơ_1”

That is why you NEVER have three generals with the same buff in the alliance:
1/ You lose the benefits of zero covariance
2/ You have the maximum penalties of alliances with same buff.

If your generals have buffs that are INDEPENDENT of each other, you maximize the alliance by reducing the variance of the portfolio. For example you wouldn’t have Moonlight Dragon & Demon Warrior OR Kaiser & Dolomar OR Barbarus & Maalvus, in the same alliance, etc.

Dolomar vs Barbarus is the old “Bird in hand vs birds in the bush” argument (bird in hand has zero variance with birds in the bush have variance aka Barbarus [after being charged up] gives a fixed dmg buff while Dolomar is bird in hand, it’s critical buff is only valuable when it shows up). This STUPID debate being going on since 2014 when I first joined because people don’t understand variance and basic portfolio theory.

Given the same Bird in hand vs bird in the bush argument, an alliance with independent buffs are incredibly valuable given their sum certain benefits.

The best alliance (for most people) would be
1/ Moonlight Dragon critical dmg & critical chance
2/ Barbarus guarantee dmg
3/ MK (free hits)

This is very easy to prove using Calculus: because you set the F.O.C. to zero and solve the equation.

You won’t use Sahar or Vancy any General with + Monster because of diminishing returns thus provide a cap to the benefit.

I use Barbarus - Dolomar - MK because farming essence is just as important as getting my drops.

Summary:

1/ Be wary of people who use personal opinions to make recommendations. Instead TRUST the math.

2/ You can verify the math is correct by conducting as close to scientific tests as you can: Hit the same monster under similar conditions using difference Monster hunting alliances. You can choose EV (eg dmg per stamina) as your benchmark or EV/Var aka mean variance as your benchmark.

I am risk adverse so I choose EV/Var because it helps me plan how much (baseline) stamina I need. Critical hit generals are only as valuable as you get a critical hit. And critical dmg generals like Demon Warrior is highly dependent on a critical hit.

Once you see the math in action, you can see the bovine manure artists. And no, the math is not easy since you need to use Calculus and especially optimization aka differential calculus.

[dragonfly522]

I’ve maxed out maalvus at level 80 with 4 stars, giving me 20% crit hit chances. I use him as a secondary because of his superior att/def. If I were to use therian, I would get good monster attack, but maalvus does both crit hit chance and high att/def power. That means I get to use my barborus as my main gem in an alliance for the same reason as mentioned before in this thread. Finally, that leaves demon warrior as the third gen in the alliance. He is essential and I don’t know of a better gen to put in that third spot because he’s so valuable.

[Eadwine]

Dolomar and Kaiser are favor generals. Criticals have been a rage for me since I pulled Lothar the Ranger on my first ever chest pull 13 years ago. I took Kaiser to 4* level 54 before I became convinced that Dolomar had more upside, so I switched and have taken Dolo to 7* level 79. My Barbarus is the same. Maalvus and Slayer are second rate versions of Barbarus and Dolomar. You don't have to believe anyone. Keep using them and leveling them and keep reading more and comparing the numbers. Eventually, you'll have 4* level 54s and realize you need to go in a better direction. That's what I did.

[JefferMC]

I believe that he means that Maalvus' Critical % chance isn't as good as some that don't have the 3X hit ability, and he lists some with a better critical chance: Dolomar, Kaiser, and Kang.

e.g. at level 50: Maalvus' Critical chance is 10%. Dolomar's at the same level is 15%. Kaiser's 13% and Kang's 16.22%. Of course, two of these are chest generals.

[dragonfly522]

Plz explain what u mean

[Eadwine]

Imo you'll do a lot better, in your monster hunt group, if you replace Maalvus with a real crit general ie. Dolomar, Kaiser or Kang, etc. Jus sayin...

[dragonfly522]

I like Slayer because he offers the most crit hit chance, seemingly; however, that 1-2% difference with Maalvus is actually better overall because of the attack and defense power that he (Maalvus) gives. It's kind of like using a gen that gives u added monster attack. My Maalvis is maxed out at 1431 attack and 1263 defense. So I use, in order on the alliance, first Barbarus, second Maalvus, and third Demon Warrior. Maalvus is in the secondary slot because his attack and defense power is going to be higher overall than if he was put in the third slot. If someone doesn't understand something, let me know.

[dragonfly522]

I'll test it out ty

[JefferMC]

The Demon Warrior increases the damage done if the critical chance roll is made. On my character/loadout, it basically turns 2X/3X critical hits into 3X/4X critical hits. To put it another way: say I get 4M from a hit where there is no critical, and 8M or 12M when there is a critical. After adding Demon Warrior (now level 35) in the loadout, the damage on a critical went up to about 12M or 16M. With Hell Viper, it's up another few million.

For me, it's not a Barbarus or Demon Warrior choice, I'm using both (and Kang, a Critical Chance general as well), but instead of something with +monster attack in the 3rd slot, I use Demon Warrior.

[dragonfly522]

I have another question. Has anybody studied whether the demon warrior does more or less extra damage than the barbarus does when his extra damage kicks in?

[JefferMC]

The link works for me, leads to this: https://www.castleageforums.com/foru...r-how-it-grows

Works for me, now. Thanks.

[dragonfly522]

ty everybody. I am sold.

[gogoo]

Note that the reference back to the forums from the referenced Wiki page is a dead link. Be nice to fix the reference or remove it.

The link works for me, leads to this: https://www.castleageforums.com/foru...r-how-it-grows

[JefferMC]

Note that the reference back to the forums from the referenced Wiki page is a dead link. Be nice to fix the reference or remove it.