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Thread: Which of these is better in PVP?

  1. #1
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    Default Which of these is better in PVP?

    I'm browsing Wiki page now for best PVP equipment and I'm a bit confused: https://castleage.fandom.com/wiki/Be...uipment_-_Duel

    For example, it says that, in Magic "Windflame" is in a better position than "Phantom Illusion" even though Phantom Illusion has more attack. I also don't understand why "Succubus Kiss" is in a better position with it's 2/11 stats than Phantom Illusiion. Does that small 5 fire pierce makes so much difference?

    Is that chart accurate? Should I use it, even though numbers say otherwise?

    In armors, Wormhide Breastplate 60/125 is better than Thanatos Plate 150/150 blade, just because Wormhide has physical pierce?

    Also, does this chart applies to Guild battles (which I'm interested) or only menu battle/duels?
    Last edited by Ditendra; 11-14-2019 at 10:40 AM.

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    The pierce scales with your attack. So anything with pierce is considered better than something without it.

    For low values of attack the other piece of gear may be better, however it is considered that the difference will eventually be surpassed.

    It'd be interesting I suppose, if the wiki would give an effective attack threshold, past which one piece of gear is better than the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zserg View Post
    The pierce scales with your attack. So anything with pierce is considered better than something without it.

    For low values of attack the other piece of gear may be better, however it is considered that the difference will eventually be surpassed.

    It'd be interesting I suppose, if the wiki would give an effective attack threshold, past which one piece of gear is better than the other.
    Yes, that would be very useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zserg View Post
    The pierce scales with your attack. So anything with pierce is considered better than something without it.

    For low values of attack the other piece of gear may be better, however it is considered that the difference will eventually be surpassed.

    It'd be interesting I suppose, if the wiki would give an effective attack threshold, past which one piece of gear is better than the other.
    I don't wanna open new thread and will ask you here: Some heroes have ability "while equipped increase this/that...", like for example "While equipped, +X damage + Y% to Damage Rune in guild battles"... Does this mean I need to equip that general as a master/main general in alliance or it will work as a second or third general too?

  5. #5

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    Regarding "Best pvp equipment" in the wiki, the page is updated and mostly 100% correct.

    Explanation of Wormhide Breastplate vs Thanatos Plate when attacking in pvp:
    - Piercing: Wormhide is way better due to its piercing, 75 Physical and 25 Earth, whereas Thanatos has nothing.
    - Sockets: there is a tie here. Reason: wormhide has 1 socket and Thanatos has 2, but given that you can only forge defensive gems/ingots, the second slot adds nothing. Explanation: you can forge a defensive chaos gem on both (that gem might have useful bonuses for attack too, like +x% to to base attack or +y% to aggressive general) but, aside from chaos gems, other defensive gems are like "+x to physical resistance and/or +y to elemental resistance", which doesn't help at all when attacking.
    - Stats: the difference is more subtle than it may seem, 147,5 for Wormhide and 255 for thanatos. So around 108 points which are covered by far with piercing.

    As a rule of thumb, without using formulas, I would recommend:
    a) Average Total Attack and Total Defense <500: stick to high-stat items over pierce/resistance.
    b) Average Total Attack and Total Defense 500-800: stats and piercing/resistance have more or less the same importance.
    c) Average Total Attack and Total Defense >800: stick to pierce/resistance over stats.
    These thresholds aren't accurate at all and every build might rely more on one thing or the other, but it might help you.
    As you can see, very early on the game, even if not developing Attack/Defense directly, you will get bonuses enough to fit on c)

    Regarding your second question, just try making alliances with those generals being not masters. Read the final abilities of the master and see if they work or not. The are same generals, like Barbarus 3x hits, whose abilities only work as a main, but I think all those damage-enhancing generals work in every place.
    Last edited by Barathor; 11-14-2019 at 02:48 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barathor View Post
    Regarding "Best pvp equipment" in the wiki, the page is updated and mostly 100% correct.

    Explanation of Wormhide Breastplate vs Thanatos Plate when attacking in pvp:
    - Piercing: Wormhide is way better due to its piercing, 75 Physical and 25 Earth, whereas Thanatos has nothing.
    - Sockets: there is a tie here. Reason: wormhide has 1 socket and Thanatos has 2, but given that you can only forge defensive gems/ingots, the second slot adds nothing. Explanation: you can forge a defensive chaos gem on both (that gem might have useful bonuses for attack too, like +x% to to base attack or +y% to aggressive general) but, aside from chaos gems, other defensive gems are like "+x to physical resistance and/or +y to elemental resistance", which doesn't help at all when attacking.
    - Stats: the difference is more subtle than it may seem, 147,5 for Wormhide and 255 for thanatos. So around 108 points which are covered by far with piercing.

    As a rule of thumb, without using formulas, I would recommend:
    a) Average Total Attack and Total Defense <500: stick to high-stat items over pierce/resistance.
    b) Average Total Attack and Total Defense 500-800: stats and piercing/resistance have more or less the same importance.
    c) Average Total Attack and Total Defense >800: stick to pierce/resistance over stats.
    These thresholds aren't accurate at all and every build might rely more on one thing or the other, but it might help you.
    As you can see, very early on the game, even if not developing Attack/Defense directly, you will get bonuses enough to fit on c)

    Regarding your second question, just try making alliances with those generals being not masters. Read the final abilities of the master and see if they work or not. The are same generals, like Barbarus 3x hits, whose abilities only work as a main, but I think all those damage-enhancing generals work in every place.
    Thx for answer, however your statement - "the difference is more subtle than it may seem, 147,5 for Wormhide and 255 for thanatos. So around 108 points which are covered by far with piercing."
    I didn't understand this part. From what you got those numbers (147 and 255)?
    I also don't understand those formulas.
    Last edited by Ditendra; 11-14-2019 at 06:19 PM.

  7. #7
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    effective attack = attack + 0.7 * defense . That's where he got the 2 numbers.

    Piercing is a multiplier on top of that. (applied to your character's entire effective attack, not just to a particular gear piece, that's why it's so valuable).

  8. #8

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    When attacking, the total attack power of yourself, a general, a unit orf an item is:
    100% Attack stat + 70% defense stat.
    When defending, it is:
    70% Attack stat + 100% defense stat.

    So, with Wormhide, when attacking (60/125):
    60 + 0.7x125 = 147.5 total attack power

    With Thanatos, when attacking (150/150):
    150 + 0.7x150 = 255.0 total attack power

    The difference in total attack power among those 2 items is:
    255 - 147.5 = 107.5, rounding 108 in favor of Thanatos.

    Edit: Zserg said it first Call it effective attack, total attack power, whatever you want.
    Last edited by Barathor; 11-14-2019 at 06:29 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barathor View Post
    When attacking, the total attack power of yourself, a general, a unit orf an item is:
    100% Attack stat + 70% defense stat.
    When defending, it is:
    70% Attack stat + 100% defense stat.

    So, with Wormhide, when attacking (60/125):
    60 + 0.7x125 = 147.5 total attack power

    With Thanatos, when attacking (150/150):
    150 + 0.7x150 = 255.0 total attack power

    The difference in total attack power among those 2 items is:
    255 - 147.5 = 107.5, rounding 108 in favor of Thanatos.

    Edit: Zserg said it first Call it effective attack, total attack power, whatever you want.
    Oh, I see now, thx
    Ok, so wormhide has better physical pierce while thanatos doesn't have at all. Thanatos has 2 slots, but they are for defensive which doesn't help with attacking, right? so, it's not much important? And with stats as I see, Thanatos wins. So, now, which one is better for attacking in guild battles? Which one should I aim to get?
    Which armor are using pro/big level players?
    Last edited by Ditendra; 11-14-2019 at 07:09 PM.

  10. #10

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    There are no specific answers, many things are relevant, such is CA.
    But all things considered, Thanatos is best.
    If u're low on atk, physical pierce wont do much good to you. Pierce enhances your effective atk, its like a multiplier.
    It also depends whether u have your def rune on your armor. Higher the rune, better to stick with that one armor for both atk/def.
    so, Thanatos is best.
    But until u finally get it, u can use Wormhide.
    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.

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