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Thread: Quick tip on Number of Refills per Level

  1. #1

    Default Quick tip on Number of Refills per Level

    A lot of us have fond memories when we *used to* leveled up quickly. Now, it takes a week or more for me to level up using natural regeneration. Here’s a quick tip to use to help discern number of refills to level up.

    Here are the basic assumptions:
    - no Monkey King effect in case you don’t have MK
    - 12.5 XP needed to go up each level
    - you have have at least 2,000 energy (to max refill)
    - you have have at least 1,000 stamina (to max refill)
    - ignores natural regeneration

    If you are at lvl 1K with 2K energy & 1K stamina, you are looking at roughly 3 refills to level up INSTANTANEOUSLY. Level 1K * 12.5 requires 12,500 XP to level up (immediately). 12.5K divides by 2,500 XP “per refill” (the fudge factor) is 5 refills; 2K energy saves 1 refills and 1K stamina saves 1 refills so you are left with needing about 3 refills to level up (immediately).

    If you are at level 2.5K like Elvis aka Dances with Wolves, then you need 2,500 * 12.5 or 31,250 XP to level up (immediately). 31,250 divided by 2,500 fudge factor is roughly 12.5 refills to level up (immediately).

    So 2,500 fudge factor divided by 12.5 is 200 or you generally need 1 refill to level up about 200 levels (immediately). One easy rule of thumb to keep in mind is 1 refill per 200 levels.

    If you are level 3K then 3K divided by 200 is roughly 15 refills to level up (immediately). The math is 3,000 * 12.5 = 37,500 XP and divided by 2,500 fudge factor is 15 refills. Both ways gets to 15 refills.

    So why 2,500 XP as the fudge factor per refill (and therefore 200 lvl needs a refill). The 2,500 (or 200) is just a guideline for quick calculations.... think of this as a recipe, not an exact science. Your exact factor depends on your exact actions.

    For me, I would use a full energy refill to do excavations so that gets me 2,600 XP (208 lvl per refill). However, if I spent a refill on stamina, then I should expect 2,200 XP (176 lvl per refill). So the 2,500 fudge factor is just a blended number.

    In contrast, a power level might get 3,500 XP per 2,000 energy (or equivalent to 1 energy refill) and thus average 280 lvls per refill equivalent. As stated earlier, if you use refills solely to hunt mobs, then expect 2,200 XP and use 176 lvls per refill as your guideline. Elvis at level 2.5K needs roughly 12 energy refills if used for excavations to 14.2 stamina refills if used for monster hunting.

    Why is this important: to help calculate how many refills you need to efficient hunt mobs during Events like Meteorite, TI, etc.

    Keep in mind a few things: XP from mobs have variance while XP from quests are deterministic so simplify your leveling up by doing the stochastic part of the equation first. Natural regeneration and MK effect makes it more challenging, but at least you have a good idea of refills needed and at what time, you should be leveling up.

    I hate wasting Energy or Stamina so I try to be as efficient as I can. I went through 10 stamina refills on the first night of Meteorite and thanks to my calculations, my levels up went smoothly without any waste. I am at a level where I need 10.5 to 12 refills to level up (immediately) so it requires a lot of planning.

  2. #2

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    I think another interesting thing can be added:

    During Meteorite many players are using their Energy almost exclusively on Monsters, and as far as I know, the average XP you'll get from an energy refill is 2,800 XP.
    You get between between 1.0 and 1.8 XP / energy when healing a monster, and I believe it's random so the average is 1.4 XP / energy.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoo View Post
    I think another interesting thing can be added:

    During Meteorite many players are using their Energy almost exclusively on Monsters, and as far as I know, the average XP you'll get from an energy refill is 2,800 XP.
    You get between between 1.0 and 1.8 XP / energy when healing a monster, and I believe it's random so the average is 1.4 XP / energy.
    1. The use of energy for healing to get Meteorite drops did not work well for me; I prefer using energy for excavations & keeping some energy as a reserve / buffer for Cefka’s quests if I really need to level up.

    2. I really didn’t create anything because anyone with math could figure this out. If you want to post on the CA Wiki site, please make sure that I am dealing with instantaneous or leveling up ASAP so natural regeneration does not play a meaningful role and “refill” means refill or it’s equivalents because someone that has 4,000 energy has the equivalent of two energy refills when they level up (where thexbob did a lot of work). There’s already lots of information about average energy & stamina usage until leveling up so having a strategy for instantaneous leveling is really meant for spenders & power leveler’s, which is helpful during Events.

    Part of the reason for the post was that I had read Ninja Tom’s recent update where he was lvl 3K+ but still struggles to level up despite having over 10K in energy and huge amounts of stamina.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batw View Post
    1.
    Part of the reason for the post was that I had read Ninja Tom’s recent update where he was lvl 3K+ but still struggles to level up despite having over 10K in energy and huge amounts of stamina.
    That's the power leveler's dilemma, sooner or later the time to level up increases to two days or more even if you put all skill points into LSI. Sooner if you keep leveling up quickly but later if you level up slowly. Still, with two days level up time and Monkey King you can get by on 1 refill per level up, spending a few 10 stam or 10 ene potions if needed to level up instantly. Colosseum is nice because of the skill point rewards and of course promo packs are nice for extra skill points too, so you can beat 12.5 xp per level increase on most level ups, except for the times you gain a few levels instantly during Meteorite, but then you have guild coins to buy skill points if needed.

    Top 1000 is about 130 Golds, or 400 total meteorites, or 40k stamina and 80k energy. Tom has 10k ene and 6k stamina so needs to gain 6 levels in 8 days. Not too hard with a stockpile of full refill potions.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixpence View Post
    That's the power leveler's dilemma, sooner or later the time to level up increases to two days or more even if you put all skill points into LSI. Sooner if you keep leveling up quickly but later if you level up slowly. Still, with two days level up time and Monkey King you can get by on 1 refill per level up, spending a few 10 stam or 10 ene potions if needed to level up instantly. Colosseum is nice because of the skill point rewards and of course promo packs are nice for extra skill points too, so you can beat 12.5 xp per level increase on most level ups, except for the times you gain a few levels instantly during Meteorite, but then you have guild coins to buy skill points if needed.

    Top 1000 is about 130 Golds, or 400 total meteorites, or 40k stamina and 80k energy. Tom has 10k ene and 6k stamina so needs to gain 6 levels in 8 days. Not too hard with a stockpile of full refill potions.
    1. There is no upper limit on BSI or LSI and thus no upper limit on TSI. The power level doesn’t have a dilemma unless he chooses to have one.

    Elandal used to espouse the upper limit on TSI was way 9.0 and thexbob believed him. I had to explain to thexbob, there is no limit on either BSI or LSI, and thus no limit on TSI. A few years later, thexbob did reach a TSI above 9.0.

    My drone is lvl 7 and was increasing its BSI at a rate of 1.5 per week or 78 per annum. He is level locked at lvl 6 so the 9 SP into Attack from daily prayer gave him 1.5 BSI per week (btw, 9 Atk divided lvl 6 is 1.5). Therefore, there is no limit on BSI. (Due to Colo, the drone now prays to Malekus 5 times a week and prays for health on double prayer days).

    If you can understand that BSI has no limit, the same is true for LSI. And by extension, so long as you put enough SP’s into energy & stamina multiplied by its beta coefficient, respectively, that equals 12.5 per lvl, you can maintain a constant LSI.

    And if you understand this, you can also understand how I am at lvl 2088 and could level up on just 3 refills if I choose to power level.

    In summary: (a) anyone can be a power leveler and (b) reductions in LSI are made by the player. For example, I could wait a few hours for natural regen to lvl up or I could engage in power leveling and save myself those few hours of regeneration.

    2. Your 130 GM is a good guess and will probably come true.

    -Batw

    PS suppose the Dev announced Meteorite in advance. I would plan to have 1,000 stamina (or 1,000 energy) remaining with 1 XP left to level up just prior to the start of the Meteorite Event. gogoo stated the XP to energy ratio (or energy beta coefficient) was between 1.0 to 1.8 if I chose to heal with 1,000 energy so I could start my next level up with as much as 1,800 XP less to level up. Had I used the 1,000 stamina hit, I would average 2,200 XP on that hit. This is known as the “Surf Model” where the extra XP flows (the “wave”) into to the next level XP requirement and you may “surf” that waves for many levels. There is a lot of power leveling tricks a player can use, which is especially helpful during Events like Meteorite.

  6. #6
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    I think I first saw this calculation back in 2010/11 when plvling was a new thing, but this is probably the only thread dedicated to explaining it in detail, so good job

  7. #7

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    if you are power leveling,sooner or later you run out of SP to gain from other things than the level-up 5 SP( i know i am at that point,and i am not even a LSI build) so the level up speed will slow down at one point as you can max gain 5 SP per level +1 from prayer/day.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hansa View Post
    if you are power leveling,sooner or later you run out of SP to gain from other things than the level-up 5 SP( i know i am at that point,and i am not even a LSI build) so the level up speed will slow down at one point as you can max gain 5 SP per level +1 from prayer/day.
    Actually the 'wall' is 4 days level up time to maintain LSI of 9.0 or better. I ended up purposely delaying level up in order to get 9 skillpoints and offset the 12.5 xp increase every level. I have the ability to power level during meteorite but at other times I'm just as slow as a hybrid build to level up. And I waste about 6 to 8 thousand energy every level. Luckily there's no real reason to level up any faster as the availability of monsters to hunt is limited, and I've reached the limit of item archives available not counting legendary alchemies.

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    Great topic, thanks for sharing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Batw View Post
    Part of the reason for the post was that I had read Ninja Tom’s recent update where he was lvl 3K+ but still struggles to level up despite having over 10K in energy and huge amounts of stamina.
    I struggle because I refrain from doing the high XP-ratio quests over and over again. It is boring as hell. So, i mostly use ENE on monsters. I even started using ENE to trade in my essences :-/
    Nnja Tom TFF landed a CRITICAL HIT on Vargulis's Right Wing hitting them for an UNGODLY amount of Damage [82,683,166]! Vargulis's Right Wing dealt 1 damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixpence View Post
    Actually the 'wall' is 4 days level up time to maintain LSI of 9.0 or better. I ended up purposely delaying level up in order to get 9 skillpoints and offset the 12.5 xp increase every level. I have the ability to power level during meteorite but at other times I'm just as slow as a hybrid build to level up. And I waste about 6 to 8 thousand energy every level. Luckily there's no real reason to level up any faster as the availability of monsters to hunt is limited, and I've reached the limit of item archives available not counting legendary alchemies.
    Wow, that's impressive. What level are you?

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