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Thread: 3rd Slot Def Alliance Inquiry

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoo View Post
    Well damn, I didn't realize generals with ER + PR had this issue with linking. The wiki actually quickly states it.

    Kath was already better even if the ability transfer had worked the way I described it, but now for sure we can say Kath is unquestionably a lot better.
    The FR buff does not stack because Hera’s buff isn’t one ER, it’s 4 ER.

    The rest of us who owned Hera saw how generals like Ravendor, Kendra, etc were made worst off due to Hera. My 6* Ravendor is collecting dust just like my 5* Sahar.

    IMO, I suspect the reason the OP made this thread was because he was ignorant about Hera (since he doesn’t own Hera, which was pretty obvious to those who own Hera). I also suspect the OP lacks a 5* MK (or better), which is pretty much the standard now for spenders. Anyone spieling a diatribe how Ravendor is so great means that person never got on the Hera bandwagon (one reason being said person lacks Hera), which was discussed at length on the forum after Orlando won the Flipped Event (that introduced Hera).

    For the record, my Hera is 3* at lvl 53 with a ER buff of 64 each. I got burnt out leveling generals after leveling MK. So it will take a while for my Hera to reach Resurrection’s lvl.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoo View Post
    You're right, let's see.
    As mentioned though, this still won't change the fact that the alliance with Kath gives a better ability boost.



    So you're telling me not to rush to judgement. But you're yourself making statements, asserting stuff very confidently, and telling people they're wrong without even checking the actual values (right there in the wiki btw - an unpromoted Hera goes above 60 Resist at ~lvl 55). Worse than that, I actually did the math, you quoted my post, and the values for Hera resist were right there (+296 total ER - I think we can agree it's still obvious that when divided by 4 you get smth above 60).

    Ugh.
    Some situations with Kath will improve, some won't.

    I'm also apparently having writing failure, perhaps I should just focus on the dissertation, but this thread is very interesting to me.

    I did leave words out of my post, and I do actually look things up, and I did not realize that Elemental Generals in 2nd slot would be impacted by Hera 3rd slot... So let's just proceed.

    What I'd meant to write, FWIW, was that I didn't realize that Hera's benefit in one element could exceed what an elemental general could get in that element plus PR. I clearly was interrupted and came back to it not realizing I'd completely abbreviated the thought. I have mistake littering earlier posts including the use of wrong names for generals. It is kind of embarrassing, but I don't mind admitting that I make mistakes.

    Hera is a game changer, for sure.

    Katherine, however, "this still won't change the fact that the alliance with Kath gives a better ability boost" is not proven. In the example posted Raven 1st and Katherine 2nd is better.

    Raven 1st can be determined by analysis, Kath 2nd the same.

    If Hera was not 3 stars and level 80, we can see when Kendra is better than Katherine too.

    What is clear is not that a general is superior, but, rather, that someone needs to be much more systematic than in the past.

    The presence of Layla is something that I fear I may have also not completely grasped. I wish I could play around with Hera, but I can't
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batw View Post
    The FR buff does not stack because Hera’s buff isn’t one ER, it’s 4 ER.

    The rest of us who owned Hera saw how generals like Ravendor, Kendra, etc were made worst off due to Hera. My 6* Ravendor is collecting dust just like my 5* Sahar.

    IMO, I suspect the reason the OP made this thread was because he was ignorant about Hera (since he doesn’t own Hera, which was pretty obvious to those who own Hera). I also suspect the OP lacks a 5* MK (or better), which is pretty much the standard now for spenders. Anyone spieling a diatribe how Ravendor is so great means that person never got on the Hera bandwagon (one reason being said person lacks Hera), which was discussed at length on the forum after Orlando won the Flipped Event (that introduced Hera).

    For the record, my Hera is 3* at lvl 53 with a ER buff of 64 each. I got burnt out leveling generals after leveling MK. So it will take a while for my Hera to reach Resurrection’s lvl.
    Nice assumptions, easier assumption, however, is that I never read that thread or wiki.

    Confirmation of point:
    No question that this non-spender doesn't care about MK.


    If you're whole argument about Katherine being better than Raven require a pretty stout Hera, then cool!

    You were right that part of the 1st post was that I was/am ignorant about Hera, but at the time I actually thought my lack of knowledge about Layla was the issue.
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  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Wimsta View Post
    Getting back to this specific query, with much better understanding.

    I don't know why you don't have Raven in the 1st slot.

    You trade 8 PR for 12 FR + half the stat difference between your Raven and Kath.

    I do see you don't have Azriel, and the full PR bonus 3rd slot from her. Other wise you might put Hera Second and get a few more FR but lose some stats....

    Interesting situation since you've got a 3 star hera, but no layla or Azriel.

    I imagine that in time you'll actually have a rather large TTK, but I'm not sure I understand why you'd put that in 1st either.

    I whole-heartedly concede, however, that you're incredible alliance should use Katherine in the 2nd slot.

    I'm super jealous. I don't care so much about a case proving me wrong, I just feel even more squishy now.
    You would be correct that shifting Rav to the first slot would result in a slight increase in stats, not massive but an increase. However, I am one Kat copy away from a 7th star, at which point the stat difference will be negated. In terms of the resistance, I haven't made that swap primarily because if anything, I suffer more from a lack of physical res. My fire res is high anyway, so I would just rather not sacrifice "any" physical at this stage as most attackers are beating me on physical with all the extras attack gets.

    Just to clarify by the way, I do have a one star Azriel, down at level 50 odd. I suspect though that she would have to be significantly leveled for me to remove Kat or Rav. The sheer reduction in stats would be huge. I would guess she would have to go to maybe 70+? Not done the maths though. I also only have 1280 DP, as I jumped off the monster bandwagon long before phantoms.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batw View Post
    Based on my calculations (since itís impossible for you to get a TTK above 6* as of this post), your best defense alliance could be 8* Vanathan - 6* Kath - 3* Hera. But I doubt you invested in Vanathan.

    Mystic Emporium made Vanathan valuable again since it was so hard to get copies of Kath.
    I actually do have a 5 star level 80 Van. I'd be reticent to add more copies to him though. You are correct on TTK, I actually don't plan on buying any more of those anyway. It was purely theoretical that "one day" he could be the best PR gen out there, but probably not for a long long time

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Resurrection View Post
    I actually do have a 5 star level 80 Van. I'd be reticent to add more copies to him though. You are correct on TTK, I actually don't plan on buying any more of those anyway. It was purely theoretical that "one day" he could be the best PR gen out there, but probably not for a long long time
    Most of the defense orientated players I know who were collecting bounces before I found the love have 5 star Van's I cannot image a scenario that uses them either.

    It puts the quest for defense in interesting perspective.

    I suspect that some folks here don't truly understand your stats.

    Azriel could potentially do a lot for your 3rd slot even with one star, because "full PR benefit" is a huge detail, I have the convenience of knowing that your stats exceed mine.

    If it really mattered it wouldn't be hard to see exactly how many levels you'd need--the cost--and what the benefit would be. The bigger challenge, for me at least, is that I've had no ability to evaluate the bonuses reported in the current system and the truth is that I've had no luck in legendary gem collecting.

    I suspect that a big part of your the evaluative process what exactly a stout PvPer as yourself would/should do involves details you'd like to keep guarded.

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  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Wimsta View Post
    Most of the defense orientated players I know who were collecting bounces before I found the love have 5 star Van's I cannot image a scenario that uses them either.

    It puts the quest for defense in interesting perspective.

    I suspect that some folks here don't truly understand your stats.

    Azriel could potentially do a lot for your 3rd slot even with one star, because "full PR benefit" is a huge detail, I have the convenience of knowing that your stats exceed mine.

    If it really mattered it wouldn't be hard to see exactly how many levels you'd need--the cost--and what the benefit would be. The bigger challenge, for me at least, is that I've had no ability to evaluate the bonuses reported in the current system and the truth is that I've had no luck in legendary gem collecting.

    I suspect that a big part of your the evaluative process what exactly a stout PvPer as yourself would/should do involves details you'd like to keep guarded.

    Cheers!
    Well I'm not sure on total stats. But your defence would still be way over mine. I have almost double my defence in attack... The sole reason that I have invested so heavily in defence, at the neglect of other areas, is that I sit in an anchor position in my guild. I went towards health and as much defence as I could muster to that end. The Azriel question is an interesting one though, would be fun for a math buff.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Resurrection View Post
    Well I'm not sure on total stats. But your defence would still be way over mine. I have almost double my defence in attack... The sole reason that I have invested so heavily in defence, at the neglect of other areas, is that I sit in an anchor position in my guild. I went towards health and as much defence as I could muster to that end. The Azriel question is an interesting one though, would be fun for a math buff.
    Because of the chaos gems, pure cannon is almost as strong as pure wall. Pure cannon is definitely beating me in total defense, it kills me. But the gems can do so much.





    By the time you finish added all the bonuses that attack gets over defense in, you can get more def out of pure attack than many wall leaning builds.

    Maybe I'll look for the math again. I'd guess you have more defense than me.

    10000 attack 0 defense +16% Attack* = 8120 Defense Comparatively. 81.2% as good as full wall 10,000.


    In my squishy case:
    5124 (+7468)
    13136 (7620)


    [I have 30% bonus to base attack equipped.
    I also have 23% bonus to base defense.

    In doing so I only miss out on other abilities, but I haven't been lucky in gems anyway. Sadly, I got ride of two of my best ones before they could be refined ]
    Forgetting the Green numbers since bonuses, runes, and gems still really only comes down to the 16% advantage given to Attack.


    All my stats into attack 18260 + % bonus = 14,827 eDef

    Compared with my current effective stat of = 16,722 eDef

    Compared with pure wall = 18260

    High BSI Cannon could very easily have more defense (just in terms of raw stats, not even factoring anything else in but this bonus) than me and be a lower level, as I suspect you do.

    * It is possible to boost Attack 16% more than it is possible to boost defense, everything else being equal. There isn't a slotted spell yet is there?
    Last edited by Da Wimsta; 03-02-2019 at 03:54 AM.
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