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Thread: Cost analysis - Guild Battles

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    Default Cost analysis - Guild Battles

    Spoiler alert: This is another thread complaining about the lack of new battle seasons regularly. But more, it's a reminder for our devs about just how much time, energy, and money many of us have spent on the game, strictly to be better equipped for those Guild Battles.

    Universal Generals
    Daphne (Oracle)
    Hermodr (Oracle)
    The Butcher (Oracle)
    Tora (Chest)
    Jera (Chest)
    Deimos (Chest)

    WARRIORS:
    Necessary Oracle Generals:
    Oberon
    Joan
    Meekah

    For 5* on each of these, plus 3 pieces of gear for each, many players have spent 1305 FPs, before considering any FPs spent to gather the necessary colored crystals to get them levelled.

    Attilus (optional), but another 435 FPs spent for 5*.

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Jera
    Deimos
    Ameron
    Tyrant
    Grombert

    With 4 of these being Epic Chest Generals, many players have spent literally thousands or tens of thousands of FPs to collect and promote them.

    MAGES
    Necessary Oracle Generals:

    Alexandria
    Muse
    Anya
    Ephraline
    Xelia

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Zurran
    Felizia
    Luno
    Alloken the Fallen
    Jaelle

    3 chest epics. Though Jera & Deimos are less useful for Mages with Damage Runes over 500, they can still be used to boost single target damage.

    ROGUES
    Necessary Oracle Generals:

    Deshara
    Jezelle
    Elyvita
    Rafaria
    Aethyx

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Raziel the Silent
    Esmerelda
    Jessika the Jester
    Dominus

    CLERICS
    Necessary Oracle Generals:

    Sanna
    Dawn
    Shivak
    Bogo
    Tefaera

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Elaida
    Mischa
    Kothas
    Sylphora

    All 4 are epics.

    Promo Only Generals
    Aki- at this point, just make him a damn Oracle gen already. We're over it.

    In other words, a whole lot of people have spent a whole lot of damn money on building up their generals for Guild Battles, so stop being slackasses and give us the New damn seasons already! [/rant]
    Last edited by VersionsOfViolence; 07-01-2017 at 04:02 AM. Reason: More words cuz this is srs thread
    ~VoV~

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    This thread can also be a gentle explanation of why I ****ing hate the random bs in Campaigns. It shows a complete and utter lack of respect for all the effort any of us has put into building up a single Class. Being efficient at all 4 classes is ****ing insane, if not impossible.
    Last edited by VersionsOfViolence; 07-01-2017 at 03:54 AM.
    ~VoV~

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    Nice rant

    I agree
    What's more broken, defense or the game?
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    Personally the real costly generals are not listed eg My attack and defense alliances KAT/RAV/AZRIEL + ANNIKA/KITSUNE/GALE

    I should really swap out Annika for Guinevere but I don't have the resources to promote her enough
    What's more broken, defense or the game?
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    This is why giving out a few extra rewards during regular gameplay cannot possibly hurt the devs. People will always have something to work on, and happy people are more likely to spend on the game to show their appreciation.

    There's no reason for ridiculously small drop rates in events and in the game in the general.

    And yes, need new battle seasons. (Which were said to be coming "soon" by the new devs, we'll have to see what soon means)
    Last edited by zserg; 07-01-2017 at 08:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    Universal Generals
    Daphne (Oracle)
    Hermodr (Oracle)
    The Butcher (Oracle)
    Tora (Chest)
    Jera (Chest)
    Deimos (Chest)
    Because there are lots of generals applicable to guild battles, let's at least group them a bit…
    Damage: Jera (Chest), Deimos (Chest), Gabrielle (Arena), Deianira (Guild shop)
    Damage special cases: The Butcher, Tyxeros, Alistair, Count Malek, Saya
    Damage mitigation / hurting attacker: Daphne (Oracle), Tora (Chest), Persephone (limited time), Krystalia (Chest), Hermóðr (Oracle), Isidra (Chest)
    Increasing Reach: Amon (Chest)
    Health (& health rune, ref. Fortitude, Revive): Excelsior (War Shop), Vincent (Alchemy), Sylphora (Chest)
    Self heal: Vincent (War Shop), Hrothbeort family (Chest)
    Probably useless that didn't fit above groups: Rune stun generals (Chest), atk/def rune boosting generals (Chest)
    And of course you may still need to extend reach with Pierce general and extend defense with Resistance general… Some players may go for pure duel reach skipping almost all the universals above, but that's again very specialised playstyle certainly not suited to most players and they likely have spent plenty already in their quest for highest reach.

    Because there are often many different things you want to achieve with a single token, you'll likely want to level and promote only one or two universal generals in any of groups. You may well forego some groups even if that may limit your potential a bit as different classes may well offer different strategies that leave less space for Universal generals in the alliances.

    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    WARRIORS:
    Necessary Chest Generals
    Jera
    Deimos
    I would say that Warrior absolutely needs damage rune boosting general because warrior damage depends largely on skills that depend on damage rune. But calling two of them as necessary seems overkill: certainly a warrior with just Deianira/Attilus/Meekah combination will be weaker than one with Jera/Ameron/Meekah, but swapping Attilus/Ameron for Deimos doesn't really seem necessary to me.

    Also there are warriors who don't use Sentinel/Guardian at all as well as those that don't use anything but Sentinel/Guardian, but again they are special cases and don't really describe a general guild battle player who's invested in being good at playing warrior class as whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    MAGES
    Necessary Oracle Generals:

    Alexandria
    Muse
    Anya
    Ephraline
    Xelia

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Zurran
    Felizia
    Luno
    Alloken the Fallen
    Jaelle

    3 chest epics. Though Jera & Deimos are less useful for Mages with Damage Runes over 500, they can still be used to boost single target damage.
    First of all, mages need Syren and the Syren they need needs to be high level and highly promoted. Because of nuclear grade confuse in 10v10 being easier way to win battles than any other method.

    Ephraline seems more optional to me, as she'd mainly act as booster for Syren. Then again, I don't play mage much and don't really know how big an addition Ephraline would be for Syren. Swapping Ephraline for Alexandria seems possible, but I don't really know how splash damage effects work there.
    Xelia (and Jaelle) doesn't seem very useful as Mirror Image / Illusion doesn't seem very useful. Calling them necessary doesn't seem proper here.
    Assuming pierce & resistance works in polymorph, appropriate reach extenders can be swapped for Felizia and Anya.

    Mage can be quite economic class in some ways: for 10v10 all you need is Syren, for 100v100/Classic Zurran/Muse/Alexandria, polymorph done using regular duel reach extenders. That's enough to play mage effectively, although Alloken would really help in some battles and Luno may do wonders especially in 10v10.

    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    ROGUES
    Necessary Oracle Generals:

    Deshara
    Jezelle
    Elyvita
    Rafaria
    Aethyx

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Raziel the Silent
    Esmerelda
    Jessika the Jester
    Dominus
    Deshara scales these days, but does she scale well enough? Of course for a player with only Deianira from universal damage generals Deshara is great, but for someone with Jera and Deimos, not so sure.
    As I don't see Wound/Lacerate used much, I don't think Rafaria and Esmeralda are all that necessary…
    Also for Evade, triple alliance seems overkill. But what do I know, I certainly use them all every time I play rogue — which is only when there's Evade task in campaign and where every percentage point or fraction of helps…
    Same could be said of Dominus, but then again case can certainly be made for Aethyx/Jessica/Dominus alliance for battle start poisonings.
    Petrus should be necessary for well rounded rogues really.

    There certainly are rogues that don't need any of the generals, only doing Intimidate from within Keep. But they aren't real players so we can skip that.

    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    CLERICS
    Necessary Oracle Generals:

    Sanna
    Dawn
    Shivak
    Bogo
    Tefaera

    Necessary Chest Generals
    Elaida
    Mischa
    Kothas
    Sylphora

    All 4 are epics.

    Promo Only Generals
    Aki- at this point, just make him a damn Oracle gen already. We're over it.
    If Aki was made Oracle general, clerics would have full three generals available for splash heal.
    Also, Vivian really should be necessary for clerics. The boost to Mass Heal is huge and Mass Heal is huge as cleric abilities go.

    There are clerics who only use Cleanse, Fortitude, and Revive. Some who almost only use Mass Heal. Some who almost only use passive splash heal. But a well rounded cleric does use all the skills even if heavily leaning in one direction or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    In other words, a whole lot of people have spent a whole lot of damn money on building up their generals for Guild Battles, so stop being slackasses and give us the New damn seasons already! [/rant]
    That, as well as clear understanding that people have plenty to spend on even if playing just one class.
    WARNING: THE POST ABOVE MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR IRONY!

    Elandal [FIN] ΛĢ 8218DD

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseslug View Post
    Personally the real costly generals are not listed eg My attack and defense alliances KAT/RAV/AZRIEL + ANNIKA/KITSUNE/GALE

    I should really swap out Annika for Guinevere but I don't have the resources to promote her enough
    I haven't included any PvP generals at all. That's a totally different thread.
    ~VoV~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
    lots of words, and stuff for Zergy to edit into OP.

    That, as well as clear understanding that people have plenty to spend on even if playing just one class.
    And that is another huge point being made with this thread.

    Not only have so many of us spent time, energy, and serious FPs to invest in being able to master a single Guild Class, but very few have actually mastered anything. We still have goals, including Generals to promote, Generals we're desperately trying to level, and the constant push to level our runes.

    And then f2p get squat. FP drops on relevant monsters are scarce. Drop rates for hero & colored crystals are anemic. And events this far have been less than generous, though improved since Gaea took over. Promos are laughable still though.

    But why have we done it? It's not a selfish thing, but to improve the overall team in our Guilds. And many of us have been with our Guild for years. Nearly 7 years for me at ~VoV~.

    And in that time, we've grown, as teams, with labor division set, and each of us doing what we're best at, and hopefully enjoy in battles, to get the wins.

    As a Guild Master, I absolutely ****ing hate Campaigns. First of all, most of us like the Class we battle as, so being forced into different (And much less useful) classes screws up morale. It's turned what should be fun into more like punching a time clock. Secondly, it dishonors all the investments made on our accounts to specialize as we felt we needed to. Time, energy, planning, money, research, and stat allocation.

    I have fairly high health at my level because as a Warrior with a 2* Tyrant & a 5* Joan, I absolutely have to have it.
    Last edited by VersionsOfViolence; 07-01-2017 at 12:25 PM.
    ~VoV~

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    Quote Originally Posted by VersionsOfViolence View Post
    I haven't included any PvP generals at all. That's a totally different thread.
    Maybe but definitely relevant to battles
    What's more broken, defense or the game?
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    No doubt. But this can be a series of threads. One for PvP Offense, another for PvP Defense, and a third for Monster hunting.

    But I gots no more words today...
    ~VoV~

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