Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: Transforming junk items to something useful

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    6,953

    Default Transforming junk items to something useful

    Useless stuff in RPGs / MMOGs

    We all know that in RPGs (both pnp and computerized variants) lots of stuff we find is just junk. Something we don't need nor find use for. In monster encounters it is usual for some of the loot to be left on the corpse because it simply isn't worth picking up.
    Such stuff shouldn't really exist in CA where we don't leave anything to rot with the corpse everything gained should have some use, to someone, somewhere. And most of the stuff indeed is valid invasion gear for beginners for example it's useful for someone, somewhere, somehow.

    Apart from the stuff that isn't worth picking up, most of the stuff looted from monsters is not useful for the character looting it, and is picked up simply so it'll be sold to trader. It might not be worth much, but you grind through something to get hundreds of items worth pennies each, so you get actual gold as result.
    In CA we can't sell the grind loot. And in CA, gold isn't useful except in the beginning, for newer characters, for powerlevelers who blast through quest areas faster than they gain gold. But no character that's been in the game for a year or more will really need more gold.


    Suggested resolution in Castle Age

    So, I'm suggesting a new trader, one that accepts most kinds of loot the common stuff like Platinum Plates (drop as greens from most monsters since the beginning of divine arc), even rusty gloves.

    What we should get for the "junk" is something of some use. I don't mean that we need to get much of anything for the stuff, but it should be something of value.

    Where gold is not useful resource for most characters, there are a number of other resources that can fullfill the role of currency here.

    List of resources that can be used as currencies in trading:
    • Guild Coins
    • Iron (and Lumber should it first be made useful)
    • Essence
    • Powders (for Hero Potions)
    • Evolution Crystals
    • Hero Crystals
    • 10 Energy and 10 Stamina potions

    Players value these differently, but we can still agree that a single essence isn't worth much (it takes hundreds, thousands, and on higher rune levels tens of thousands of essence to gain a single rune level). Another way to look at value of essence could be through Excavation quests: Health & Defense Essence are worth 1800 energy for 1450. Yes, that energy yields character xp and hero xp as well, but at least it's a start.
    So essence could be the smallest unit we can get in trade.

    It would be nice to be able to choose what to trade the grind loot for. Maybe I don't care so much for essence, but rather lack Iron currently? Someone else might need Guild Coins more than either of those. As it's likely that Iron is more valuable than Essence, and Guild Coins again more valuable than Iron, we'd need to trade more items to get a Guild Coin than we'd need for Iron, or Essence.

    Example:
    Character has several Rusty Gloves and wants to trade them in. She can choose from different trades depending on what she most wants:
    1 rusty glove = 1 essence of choice
    2 rusty gloves = 1 iron
    10 rusty gloves = 1 guild coin

    Older characters have gained mountains of useless junk, and new characters keep getting the stuff all the time. So most of the junk stuff (like rusty gloves) shouldn't yield big rewards of course. Still, one essence for one rusty glove probably isn't too much if zsergy has some 4400 or so rusty gloves he'd get some 4400 or so essence for the mountain, which I think is not too much for a collection of junk from five years. If something is deemed not worth a single something, then maybe make it possible to trade ten of them for one of something.
    Note that the example of zsergy's rusty gloves is extreme, describing an old character that has gained larger than normal (for the age of character) mountain of junk over the course of five years. It is meant to show that even the biggest mountains by oldest characters won't give anyone superpowers by means of trading for useful stuff.

    It should be noted that Rusty Gloves are just one junk item, one that many older characters have gained in large quantities. Newer monsters still drop common items as green drops, and while they are not useful to most players they should be considered at least slightly more valuable than ancient junk like Rusty Gloves in the trades.
    I don't have records of what kinds of junk items we gain and how fast, and can only hope that the kinds of items can be grouped so that the grind loot from normal gameplay, gained from regular hunting of big monsters, would yield some value from the trader.
    I understand that farming small monsters can yield huge numbers of grind loot, far more for the resources spent than can be gained from hunting big monsters, and so there are kinds of items that shouldn't indeed yield much of value in trade.


    Limitations on what can be traded

    It might be OK to limit this trader to stuff that Kobo doesn't take, although considering what Kobo gives in trade is usually still totally useless and probably something that can further be traded using the new NPC Trader system.

    Also, it might not be reasonable to allow trading Epic or Legendary loot, results of major alchemies, anything bought with FP from Oracle, or gained from opening Chests using FP.

    Not sure what the exact constraints should be, but I'm assuming mainly the green and low grade monster loot. And the shinies found in dwarven mines. The kind of things all characters will during normal gameplay replace with better items, that have never been exceptional, that have been used only as filler until better quality equipment replaces it.


    Note that the interface must account for players wanting to trade tens, hundreds, and even thousands of items. Because we're talking about the junk we have amassed tens, hundreds, and thousands of over the course of five years. Going forward we shouldn't amass such huge quantities anymore, being able to trade them for something useful as we gain them. Still, it would be normal for those who hunt monsters in large numbers to trade junk only periodically, possibly gaining tens or even hundreds of kind between the inventory clearing sessions.


    Thematically trading could be done simply as an NPC Trader in Town, or divided between Master Smith, High Alchemist, and other specialist traders, as found appropriate. The trades could of course be implemented as alchemies just as well, but current Alchemy interface is already cluttered and wouldn't make it easy to trade large quantities.


    TL;DR
    1. We should be able to trade away the common loot we'd normally in MMORPGs would sell for copper and silver
    2. We should gain something useful in the trade, not just slightly less useless junk
      No, I don't want golden hands for my rusty gloves, I have no use for those either. Unless that can be further traded for less useless stuff until the chain of trades leades to something useful.


    Of course there are other ways to make this stuff useful, like provide alchemies that transform mountain of junk to something useful. Trader is just easier
    Last edited by Elandal; 01-25-2014 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Further refinement & clarification
    WARNING: THE POST ABOVE MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR IRONY!

    Elandal [FIN] ΛĢ 8218DD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    The Egg Castle
    Posts
    3,969

    Default

    This has been brought many times and I support this.

    Back in the early days of the game, this items were useful and worth getting (except the "rusty" items). Now, the player base has grown older and they don't need this anymore. Even newer player will not opt to get this items as there are plenty with better stats.

    Maybe we can dub it "pawn shop" with a set of price to trade.
    maybe for example:
    trade 1 rusty gloves into 1 iron, costs 10K gold coins each

    not much but will still be useful in the future

    * at least gold will have a little bit more role in this 'pawn'....
    Last edited by n3r086; 01-24-2014 at 11:41 AM.
    The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something - Aristotle

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    First Sphere in Paradiso
    Posts
    2,104

    Default

    i suggest this before and they said the people will abused it with alts acc to support their main acc like gifts ........... so i doubt this suggestion will be heard ..............
    well we can only hope .....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    6,953

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seraphim View Post
    i suggest this before and they said the people will abused it with alts acc to support their main acc like gifts ........... so i doubt this suggestion will be heard ..............
    well we can only hope .....
    I'm absolutely not suggesting that trades be possible between characters. Only that we can trade our junk for something useful from an NPC trader. No auctions, just set prices.
    WARNING: THE POST ABOVE MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR IRONY!

    Elandal [FIN] ΛĢ 8218DD

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    The Egg Castle
    Posts
    3,969

    Default

    Trade between players ==> free market ==> no no
    Trade between players & NPC ==> no way to be abused ==> I think it's ok and viable (just like we did with alchemy)
    The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something - Aristotle

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    6,953

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by n3r086 View Post
    This has been brought many times and I support this.
    There have been suggestions about being able to kobo rusty gloves for example. Don't remember if the kind of trading I suggested here has been suggested before probably it has indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by n3r086 View Post
    Maybe we can dub it "pawn shop" with a set of price to trade.
    maybe for example:
    trade 1 rusty gloves into 1 iron, costs 10K gold coins each

    not much but will still be useful in the future

    * at least gold will have a little bit more role in this 'pawn'....
    While trades could cost gold as well, I'm rather looking for something that resembles trading in the grind results in many other RPGs. In all honesty I can't see gold becoming useful resource anymore due to huge variation in how much gold people have and in how it can be gained. So I'll rather ignore it and try to work within other resource frameworks guild coins, iron, lumber if it becomes useful, essence, and possibly also potions, powders and crystals.
    WARNING: THE POST ABOVE MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR IRONY!

    Elandal [FIN] ΛĢ 8218DD

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    The Egg Castle
    Posts
    3,969

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
    There have been suggestions about being able to kobo rusty gloves for example. Don't remember if the kind of trading I suggested here has been suggested before probably it has indeed.
    yeah, I think this is the first one (if not, I may just skipped when searching for specific post). Other suggestions were mostly encouraging free-market trade
    The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool because he has to say something - Aristotle

  8. #8

    Default

    I'd love it. And, wouldn't necessarily base limitations on the fact that people may have thousands of a given item; because they'll only have thousands like that once. If it took them five years to accumulate 1000 of something, they wouldn't re-accumulate that much again in a reasonable amount of time. I think that if it wasn't fairly meaningful when you do have a backlog that took that long to amass, it'd never really be very meaningful to anyone who doesn't have that kind of backlog, nor to anyone again once they've cleared theirs.

    Do get what you're saying, that it should take a lot of useless gear to equal something useful, and I completely agree with that. Just that I think if you base the 'meaning' mostly on the sum totals that the longest-term players right now would or might have, then it would take current players roughly the same amount of time (from now) to see anything meaningful out of it themselves, potentially. Which kinda makes it only relevant/useful to the oldest players (vs. more relevant to them), and also really only that one time until a similar amount of time has passed again.

    If you wanted to slow progress upfront with respect to backlog, then maybe limit daily trades, like Kobo? There was a similar disparity/backlog of gift items when he was introduced, but the daily trade limit meant that those with a big backlog couldn't dump it all on the first day, and so couldn't gain the advantage from it significantly faster than those with a smaller backlog or even none at all.

    Even I don't have a tremendous amount of Rusty Gloves - 1400-odd of those. From a quick perusal of my items, the most I have of anything is 2019 Angelic Blessings. Granted, take all the useless gear I have as a complete total and it'd potentially be in the 10k range or higher, but again - only once. Not again any time soon, if that's the total accumulation of 4+ years of being unable to get rid of it in any way.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    6,953

    Default

    I certainly don't mean that one should have a thousand rusty gloves to make one trade. Only that the interface must take into account that old characters will want to trade mountains of stuff.

    It might be OK to have trade button to do one trade if you want to trade say ten excess items a day. But if that was the only way to trade, it'd be impossible to get rid of the number of rusty gloves, castle ramparts, angelic blessings, and other stuff old characters have accumulated lots of. So the trade interface would need to make it possible to change large amounts too. Have an amount selector be that slider or pulldown list or whatever.

    Also, I don't mean that you should get something meaningful only if you have thousands of items to trade. My examples are more to show that even if you get one essence for one rusty glove, it shouldn't make old characters too powerful.

    I do not think limited number of trades per day (like kobo) would be reasonable. Otherwise we're back to the issue that old characters won't get rid of those mountains of junk ever.

    The most I have of anything isn't actually rusty gloves or castle ramparts. It's the green quality drops from monsters since divine era: 4435 Valerian Signets, 4413 Platinum Plates, then Rockcrusher Axe, Opal Pendant, Opal Pendant, down to 3256 Empyrean Plates. Those total some 20k.


    So, I'm hoping we could move this mountain of stuff reasonably and get something of use for it, and that we can later on trade away the junk we get and still get something of use for it. Because there are mountains of stuff (farmers probably have loads more than anyone else), we can't really expect to get much of useful stuff for something people have by hundreds and by thousands. That's the price to pay for getting at least something instead of nothing, I believe.
    WARNING: THE POST ABOVE MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM AND/OR IRONY!

    Elandal [FIN] ΛĢ 8218DD

  10. #10

    Default

    It would be nice to scrap metal for Iron and such. I support this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •