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Thread: Monster Atk/Def Breakpoints

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    Default Monster Atk/Def Breakpoints

    Has anyone compiled a list of atk and def breakpoints for increases in dmg and healing for two-bar monsters?

    Last Updated: 3/19/2014.

    A breakpoint is the point at which adding defense and attack make a difference against a specific monster. Below a breakpoint, healing and damage will remain constant as you add attack and defense: you only notice a difference once you reach the breakpoint.

    All of your atk/def in your keep counts (my atk is 515 (+481), or 996). So do matk generals. So does the tinkerer gear defense bonus.

    Below is a summary of the estimated breakpoints for most of the monsters. We allow that ATK and DEF breakpoints may be slightly different, but they seem to be mostly the same. A huge thank you to AdventurerGR for starting this compilation, and to Newershadow and other contributors for helping gather more information. I will try to keep it updated.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdventurerGR View Post
    Here is a compilation of the data gathered in this thread so far. Clicking the links will bring you relevant posts. PLEASE let us know if the numbers, especially the lower ones, are off. We are using higher values to guesstimate the lower ones, so there may be mistakes.

    First two bar monsters and Other early ones:
    Dark Legion/Skaar/Genesis - ~80
    Ragnarok - 100
    Kromash - 100
    Shardros - 180
    Bahamut - 225
    Glacius - ~250
    Gehenna - 275
    War of the Red Plains - 275
    Alpha Bahamut - 295
    Kraken - 295
    Valhalla - 305
    Jahanna - 310*
    Agamemnon - 310
    Aurora - 310*
    Corvintheus - 300
    Ambrosia: 320
    Typhonus: ~330.

    Lion's Rebellion: ~285

    Magmos:315

    Azriel: ~350

    Malekus, Azeron: ~335

    Vermillion: 595

    Fenix: 595

    Poseidon: ~600

    Urmek: 605

    Kessaran: 625

    Abomination: 630

    Baal: 645

    Svarog: 895

    Lothorewyn: 1490-1500 Attack
    Lothorewyn: 1500 Defense

    Alperon: ~1750 (but may be lower)

    Aspect of Death: 1745 Defense; 1730 attack... not equal?

    Death Rat horde -
    Bonegnasher: 1995 def
    Verminarch: 2195def
    Ogrimus: ~2395
    Rodenom: 2590

    Cassandra - 2175 Thanks Newershadow!

    Leviathans:
    3000, 3245, 3550?, 3995 for attack
    Within 6 hours of the release, the defense threshold was reduced to 0. This has not changed since that time.

    Astaroth/Vargulis/Samael: very low atk and defense. 40 to 80, perhaps 60. Healing seems to double defense in the formula.

    OUROBOROS: preliminary estimate of 3975 for defense - atk could be higher.
    If you have updates/comments/complaints, post to the thread! I'm sure I've said this somewhere, but it's a 10% bonus when the "your allies need you more than ever!" healing bonus is up. In addition, the healing amount when strengthening (not the strengthening amount) is exactly half of the heal action.


    Why this matters:

    Here is an example of reaching both the attack and defense breakpoints. Your base damage depends on your general and equipment - the healing base might not. Again, your rune and item archive numbers count towards the breakpoint, as do monster atk generals. Our victims are Vermillion for healing and Kessaran for damage. I included the full attack/defense stat, as well as the difference between the stat and the breakpoint.

    Code:
    	V: BPT =595		Kess: BPT =625	
    	DEF     Healed20En	        ATK	Damage10Stm (rounded)
    -5	590	11,286		-3	622	29700
    0	595	11,313		2	627	33400
    5	600	15,429		7	632	36780
    10	605	17,853		12	637	38350
    15	610	19,353		19	644	40360
    20	615	20,565		26	651	41900
    25	620	21,729		41	666	44480
    30	625	22,665		51	676	45640
    35	630	23,445		61	686	46760
    40	635	24,021				
    45	640	24,585				
    50	645	25,221				
    55	650	25,809				
    60	655	26,229				
    65	660	26,673
    79      674     28,091
    97      692     29,337
    122     717     31,000
    129     724     31,256
    305     900     38,010
    332     927     38,460
    These big jumps for just 60 more defense and 60 more attack are tremendous. Healing increased 10,000 points (500/energy) with just 25 defense. Damage increased 10,000 points (1000/stm) with ~20 attack. Future increases are slower - each increase of 10,000 points takes significantly more def/atk than the last. They weem to be logarithmic based functions... but they are not THAT bad (it's a 4th root). Here's the "Healing formula" - http://www.castleageforums.com/cforu...26&postcount=1 and the "Damage formula" http://www.castleageforums.com/cforu...29&postcount=1

    Knowing breakpoints is vital to tackling new monsters. Please exploit this information to your greatest possible benefit.
    Last edited by thexbob; 02-22-2016 at 04:11 AM.

  2. #2

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    I can't seem to start a new thread or edit current ones, so I'll ask here. Why are people with a lot of stamina considered monster hunters? I know of someone who is of similar level as I but I deal more damage to monsters than that person although he has 3x as much stamina as I do. Is monster hunter just a euphemism for credit card users?

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    Quote Originally Posted by toadstool View Post
    I can't seem to start a new thread or edit current ones, so I'll ask here. Why are people with a lot of stamina considered monster hunters? I know of someone who is of similar level as I but I deal more damage to monsters than that person although he has 3x as much stamina as I do. Is monster hunter just a euphemism for credit card users?
    because what would be the use of that many stamina if you're not monster hunting ? they sacrificed their attack to be able to hit more times against monsters hence called monster hunters.

    CC users are generally people who just uses a credit card, regardless of build. monster hunters tend to do that mostly.
    the final goodbye has come

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    Quote Originally Posted by toadstool View Post
    I can't seem to start a new thread or edit current ones, so I'll ask here. Why are people with a lot of stamina considered monster hunters? I know of someone who is of similar level as I but I deal more damage to monsters than that person although he has 3x as much stamina as I do. Is monster hunter just a euphemism for credit card users?
    on a monster that is 57 hours old, i have done 19.5 mil damage to it without the use of FPs. can people with a 1/3 of my stamina do that? nope.

    you might hit harder than them, but they can hit the monster more times than you.

    every 5 or 10 stamina gives them another hit at x amount. whereas 10-20 skill points invested into attack does not give you as much damage as x amount. as long as the monster hunter builds up a big stamina stash first and then later invests in attack- they will pwn you. people who invest in attack first get the edge at first- but they dont keep the edge when someone has a large stamina stash.
    Owner of 6.32 LSI, Over 1600 Stamina, and 7 Monster Alchemy Divine Items

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    forgot to add that im sitting on 572 stamina right now too, otherwise my damage would be millions higher.
    Owner of 6.32 LSI, Over 1600 Stamina, and 7 Monster Alchemy Divine Items

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by thexbob View Post
    Has anyone compiled a list of atk and def breakpoints for increases in dmg and healing for two-bar monsters?
    The values you mention sound reasonable, but sadly, I am not aware of such a list. I can add that Vermilion and resistance monsters need like 600 to 650 defense - so likely also 600 to 650 attack.

    Also, it appears to me that the amount of damage a monster does to the party also drops when the defense value is reached. It seems I am spending significantly less than a third of the amount of energy I was spending before to heal against Jahanna now. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
    I don't think so. For a while I whacked on Vermilion with too low defense, and only healed like 5.6k. However, the damage to party health for 50 stamina was the usual 1..6 * 5k + a bit random. Of course, I needed to spend much more energy, so it felt more...

    Quote Originally Posted by toadstool
    Is monster hunter just a euphemism for credit card users?
    Not really. I never spent a single dollar, and in my book I am more monster hunter than anything else. MHers can be CCers, but this is also true for PVPers, for questers, for hybrids and probably for anything else.

    The term "monster hunter" is a bit vague also.

    1. Is it about having a low BSI?
    2. Is it about having a high LSI?
    3. Is it about spending a lot of playtime with monsters?
    4. Is it about spending the majority of your playtime with monsters?
    5. Is it about what you care about?

    Depending on the question I am a MHer or a hybrid...

    And finally, to add another argument why stamina heavy builds are good against monsters: They have a lot of stamina per day, in average, thanks to levelling rather often and gaining a lot of stamina for each level. I am still at nearly 700 stamina per day, while a real cannon should be somewhere between 300 and 350.
    Damage and loot spreadsheet # Wikia: Piercing and Resistance # 15m+ gold medals without FPs: All

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    just to illustrate that adding stamina isnt a fool's folly:

    With Dolomar, 785 attack. --stabbed Agamemnon with a flurry of strikes hitting him for a Devastating amount of Damage[68,616]!Agamemnon the Overseer dealt 2020 damage to the party.

    With Xira, 949 attack. -- stabbed Agamemnon with a flurry of strikes hitting him for a Devastating amount of Damage[72,448]!Agamemnon the Overseer dealt 1098 damage to the party.
    _____________________________________
    164 extra skill points in attack increases my damage by 3,832 per hit.

    so with 300 stamina/10 stamina= 30 hits.
    30 hits x 68.6k = 2,058,000 damage is what I get naturally
    30 hits x 72.4k = 2,172,000 damage is what I can get if I do decide to add 164 SPs into attack.
    ______________________________________
    What if I wanted to add 164 SPs into stamina instead of attack?

    164 SPs/2 SPs per stamina = 82 Stamina Addition
    382 stamina/10 stamina hits = 38 hits
    38 hits x 68.6k = 2,606,800 damage

    2,606,800 damage is more than 2,172,000 damage.

    Adding those SPs into Stamina instead of Attack yielded better results for monster hunting when considering my attack stats (i didnt use my real stamina stat). if i had an attack stat of 200, however, the results would probably show adding attack would be more beneficial than stamina because id be hitting so weakly against monsters.
    ______________________________________
    As an addendum: its complicated when deciding on whether to add to stamina or attack to be better at monster hunting. These factors need to be considered:
    1) where is your max stamina stat at
    2) where is your attack stat at
    3) how long does it take you to level
    4) how much damage do you do per stamina hit
    5) which monsters you are hunting
    6) which generals you are using
    ______________________________________
    but at the end of the day: monster hunters need more stamina, period. if they do not have a lot of stamina- they are only crippling themselves. if they end up having a 'max stamina' amount where they plan on never adding to it again- they are crippling themselves. when a monster hunter stops adding to stamina- their build becomes less effective against monsters because they will have less levelups on monsters, and therefore less damage.
    Owner of 6.32 LSI, Over 1600 Stamina, and 7 Monster Alchemy Divine Items

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    and to illustrate another model in regards to adding stamina/attack in regards to monster hunting:

    With Dolomar, 785 attack. --stabbed Agamemnon with a flurry of strikes hitting him for a Devastating amount of Damage[68,616]!Agamemnon the Overseer dealt 2020 damage to the party.

    With Xira, 949 attack. -- stabbed Agamemnon with a flurry of strikes hitting him for a Devastating amount of Damage[72,448]!Agamemnon the Overseer dealt 1098 damage to the party.
    _____________________________________
    164 extra skill points in attack increases my damage by 3,832 per hit.

    so with 1560 stamina/10 stamina= 156 hits.
    156 hits x 68.6k = 10,701,600 damage is what I get naturally
    156 hits x 72.4k = 11,294,400 is what I can get if I do decide to add 164 SPs into attack.
    ______________________________________
    What if I wanted to add 164 SPs into stamina instead of attack?

    164 SPs/2 SPs per stamina = 82 Stamina Addition
    1642 stamina/10 stamina hits = 164 hits
    164 hits x 68.6k = 11,250,400 damage

    11,294,400 damage is more than 11,250,400 damage....but only by 44k damage

    Adding those SPs into Attack instead of Stamina yielded better results for monster hunting when considering my real attack and stamina stats, but barely. So we see that with my large stamina stat being covered i can hit the monster a lot of times, but i need to buff up my attack a bit so that i can hit a bit harder each of those times. stamina and attack go hand and hand. the mistake is thinking that your attack stat should be your biggest stat as a monster hunter.
    ______________________________________
    if we check my addendum from before and compare examples- we see that when the max stamina stats are different- you get different results for whether you should add to stamina or attack.

    the difficult part in choosing whether to add to stamina or attack comes down to regenerated stamina, and how much you depend on regenerated stamina to get your damage in on monsters. and since the amount of time til your next level up is almost always increasing - it is a moving target in regards to whether you should add to stamina to have more meaningful levelups or add to attack to have more powerful hits with your regenerated stamina.
    Owner of 6.32 LSI, Over 1600 Stamina, and 7 Monster Alchemy Divine Items

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wollknäuel View Post
    I can add that Vermilion and resistance monsters need like 600 to 650 defense - so likely also 600 to 650 attack.
    This is very helpful - I'm working on a ''two epic drop'' build, trying to assure I can easily get two epics from a 100 hour fight, and possibly three if the fight is going to be a long one. Just hitting the break points seems to be sufficient for my purposes, and saves me lots of energy for questing skill pts. I'm glad to hear I will make some progress if I had 250 more to atk/def

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    to find optimal stam:attack ratio is hard.

    to find something that works for you as a monster hunter is easy.

    Choose a LSI (say 6 at lvl 500+ for example) and maintain it by adding 3 stam every level. Use the rest of your SP on attack or def depending on what you need. This way you are guaranteed to get better in monsters every level.

    Is there a better way? Most likely.

    Is it a whole lot better? Nope.

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