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Ragnar
11-17-2009, 07:32 PM
This advice is context dependent on the game as currently stands in mid-November, 2009. It's also probably not entirely complete as I haven't been a low-level player for quite some time. I've gathered up some stuff that's spread out among dozens of other threads and put it into one post, to make it easier to read.

Here's my suggestions for the incoming players.

There are three avenues to the game as it currently stands: Questing (http://174.37.115.166/cforum/showthread.php?t=1319), Combat, and Monster Hunting. If you focus on any one of those three things to the exclusion of the other two, you will likely be most successful in that individual thing (duh).

However, as time passes, it will be increasingly more difficult for you to re-balance or switch tracks, with the barrier increasing significantly as you pass the 100-level mark. Consider carefully if you intend to focus entirely on one aspect. Why?

This game is currently under development. We've experienced several major changes in the last month, but this is not the norm. Usually the updates are more serial and discrete. This is a complicated way of saying, "If you decide to be a Questor, keep in mind that it may be months before the next Questor-focused update comes out, and the same hold true for Monster-Hunters and Combat monkeys".

I favor a balanced character design, because I want to dabble in all the game content. This means I get to do a little bit of everything. This also means that whenever an update comes out, I'm able to benefit to a degree from that update. It also means that when a bunch of updates that come out, I've got too much to do (like this last month), but again this is somewhat unusual.

If you build yourself up to exclusively be a Monster Hunter, and the next three updates are all about Combat, please do not post a whining thread on the Forum about how Monsters have been nerfed and all the PvP players are having all the fun. If you build yourself up to be a PvP player and a Monster Hunter has all the cool new drops in his Army, don't complain because you don't have the new Flying Airship battle unit and everybody else has one. Feel free to vent on somebody else's whining thread if you like (everybody wants to complain now and then, I've done it myself), but starting your own is (a) gauche and (b) floods the boards with multiple threads.

Actually, this leads to a slight digression: how to act on the Forum.

Tips:

If this is the first time visiting the Forum, read at least 10 threads from start to finish before you post anything. Start with this one (http://174.37.115.166/cforum/showthread.php?t=6845).
If you're looking for advice on the Forum, start by looking for the advice, instead of asking for it. The sticky threads are the best place to start. Like this one (http://174.37.115.166/cforum/showthread.php?t=1050).
It's perfectly fine if you don't have spot-on English grammar, this is a trans-national game. Please don't write in l33t. It makes you look like a tool.
Please use punctuation, so that normal people who don't have telepathy and can't peek into your brain can understand what you're saying.
If you offer a suggestion and someone critiques it, counter the critique if you can. Don't assume that the person offering the critique is a moron or doesn't understand how special your ideas are. Some frequent posters here have a better understanding of game theory than many mathematicians.


To give you an idea of what my idea of a balanced character design looks like, you can find my full character stats on the bragging thread. Finding it is left as an exercise to the reader. I post them for reference for new players, because most of the longer-time players won't reveal their full stats.

If I was doing it over again, my Energy would have been capped at either 220 or 240, and my Defense would have the lion's share of those points.

People are going to tell you to focus on building a high Stamina and/or Energy at early levels, because that's the fastest way to level. I would discourage this for a number of reasons, but the most important one is that looking at the experience requirements for the first 40 or so levels, you will pass through that section of the game lightning-fast as it is. 40 levels worth of skill points is 200 skill points.

Yes, you can spend all that on Energy or Stamina and you'll pass through levels 41-90 as fast as you went through 1-40, but you'll do it so fast that you'll be at a disadvantage to those players that went through those same levels slower, for two reasons.

Number one, you get 1 Demi Blessing a day. If it takes you 1 week to get to level 40, you've got 200 skill points from leveling and 7 from the Demi Blessings. If it takes you 1 month to get to level 40 you've got 200 skill points from leveling and 30 from the Demi Blessings (plus some of the nice Demi Power item drops). The more patient player will clean the clock of the impatient player in Combat, if that interests you in the slightest.

Number two (and this is the more interesting but harder to grasp point), this game requires a time investment. Particularly at the early levels, when you level-up, you get all of your Stamina and Energy refilled. Well, if you don't add *any* Stamina or Energy to your character at all, you already begin the game with enough to get you to level 14 or so just by leveling up and spending the refill. If you spend Skill points adding to your Energy at this low level, you get no benefit out of it, because you literally can't spend all your Energy before you level up, and get the refill. All that other Energy is effectively wasted. Every skill point in this game counts, and you can only get so many per week, so maximizing the utility of the points will go a long way to making your character more effective.

This will vary by player, and be context dependent on what you want to focus on. Be forewarned, though, that anyone who's level 60 with more than half of their 300 skill points spent on Energy/Stamina will have a difficult time balancing out enough to ever participate effectively in Combat, because each day you're going to burn enough Energy or Stamina to level, and that brings you one step closer to the free-for-all section.

Don't get addicted to leveling. Particularly early, you'll level multiple times a day. This encourages people to spend Skill Points on Energy and Stamina, because WHOO! FULL REFILL! Then you'll start to level daily. Still, WHOO! FREE REFILL! Then a day will pass when you don't level. Maybe a couple of days. You'll look at how many XP it takes for you to level and you'll say to yourself, "Man, I need to put more in Stamina and Energy so that I can get back to being a leveling machine." Resist the temptation.

Or don't - you can play any way you like :)

But if you don't, please don't start another "I'm being chain attacked!" thread. Because I will tell you right now, if you don't up your Att/Def, you will be chain attacked. Sooner or later, you will be chain attacked mercilessly. Someone will attack you hundreds of times a day, multiple days in a row. When you send them a Facebook message asking them to stop, they'll make fun of you. When you get all worked up about it, you're going to send another message and this one is going to contain something objectionable or downright stupid, and then your chain attacker (who has been playing this game for much longer than you have and has lots of friends who are also chain attackers) will get another dozen people to chain attack you. You will drop to zero Battle Points. This isn't harassment, it's part of the Combat aspect of the game.

That's not intended as a threat (I don't generally bother with that nonsense myself), just full disclosure.

If you don't want that to happen, either keep your character balanced or focused on combat, *or* do not engage in the Combat portion of the game at all, and nobody will bother to target you because you have no Battle Rank.

Have fun. Participate in the boards, if you can. Keep your Army clean by dumping players who are people you wouldn't actually associate with in real life, and adding players you find here on the boards that you actually respect, instead of adding the first 500 people you can.

Oh, and don't insult Lena, Mursilis, or anyone else who is a moderator, even if they say something that bothers you. They bust their rears off here at no pay and no reward because they love the game and the community. Even when they're wrong, attacking them personally is going to get you in trouble.

Sophia Dragonhunter
11-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Well, if you don't add *any* Stamina or Energy to your character at all, you already begin the game with enough to get you to level 14 or so just by leveling up and spending the refill. If you spend Skill points adding to your Energy at this low level, you get no benefit out of it, because you literally can't spend all your Energy before you level up, and get the refill. All that other Energy is effectively wasted.

That's not true. You can get from level 1 to level 5 very easily, but to advance from level 5 to 6, you need 27 XP (http://174.37.115.166/cforum/showthread.php?t=5291&highlight=experience). Since a new player starts with 15 energy, they would need to find a quest with a 1,8 XP/NRG ratio, which is currently not available for players of those levels. If you used the "Falls of Jiraya" quest to get a headstart, you would need 20 XP, so you'll have to find a quest with a 1,33 XP/NRG ratio. Now there are a few subquests in the Land of Fire with such a ratio, but they need to be unlocked by doing the boss fight. So the best you could do would be to do the "Falls of Jiraya" quest 2 times, because it is the best XP/NRG ratio quest currently available for you. After that, you'd be left with 1 energy, but you'd still need 4 XP to level up. That's the first progression stopper. If you want to continue leveling this way, you'd need to spend stat points.

However, the next level is even worse! To level up from level 6 to level 7, you need 53 experience. Is there a quest with a 3,53 ratio available in the game? I fear not. Even if you used the "Falls of Jiraya" quest again to have a headstart, you'd still need 45 XP, or to find a 3 XP/NRG ratio quest.

My point is: spending stat points in energy at the beginning of the game is a very viable option, especially if you can build a big army with the help of these forums. Most players at that level do not have a 501 army, so even with stats of 1 ATT / 1 DEF, you'd be able to climb a few ranks for extra stat points. I'm one of those who suggest building up your energy at the beginning of the game. Not really because if helps you level up faster, but because it helps you gather stat points from quests and subquests faster. Sure, you'll be weaker for your level compared to the more PvP-oriented players, but in the long run you'll be better (if you do not get sucked into the power-leveling mechanism), because you would've gathered these stat points faster than those players. The only way to possibly catch up with the older players, for a newer player, is to do every possible thing that will help them more in the long run. Because even if you went the slow way, increasing your energy only because you can't progress any further and putting most stat points into ATT/DEF, once you reach the Gauntlet, you'll get crushed by the higher level players, no matter what. Especially since while you'd build your character the slow way, these players would be hunting monsters and doing quests to progress. Instead of entering the Gauntlet when these players would be level 160 (example), you'd enter it when they would be level 220 (example).

Anyway, I have to go to work, I'll check this thread when I come back to add more / read the counter-arguments. :p

Ragnar
11-17-2009, 09:20 PM
That's not true. You can get from level 1 to level 5 very easily, but to advance from level 5 to 6, you need 27 XP (http://174.37.115.166/cforum/showthread.php?t=5291&highlight=experience). Since a new player starts with 15 energy, they would need to find a quest with a 1,8 XP/NRG ratio...

Yeah, or they'd have to wait less than an hour. Okay, fair enough, it's not "instant leveling", but c'mon, you can certainly get from level 1 to mid-teens in far less than a day.


I'm one of those who suggest building up your energy at the beginning of the game. Not really because if helps you level up faster, but because it helps you gather stat points from quests and subquests faster.

For what?

That's not intended to be snarky, it's an honest question. For what? You're spending skill points so that you can acquire skill points faster. Why not just spend the skill points more evenly so that your character stays viable for all playing options and get the skill points as they come?

I understand raising your Energy to a point, especially if you have limited logins per day. But if you're getting spending skill points to acquire skill points faster, *but the cost of getting those skill points continues to increase* (as the XP requirement keeps going up), you get sucked into the power leveling maelstrom.


Sure, you'll be weaker for your level compared to the more PvP-oriented players, but in the long run you'll be better (if you do not get sucked into the power-leveling mechanism), because you would've gathered these stat points faster than those players.

But, in game terms, that *only* matters if you're a PvPer, because you want the advantage over the other players you can attack. Otherwise, "leveling faster to acquire stat points faster" doesn't give you an advantage over other players, all it does is bring you up to the gauntlet faster.


The only way to possibly catch up with the older players, for a newer player, is to do every possible thing that will help them more in the long run.

What do you mean by "catch up with the older players"? In level? In "Battles Won" or "Players Eliminated"? In "Quests Completed"?


Because even if you went the slow way, increasing your energy only because you can't progress any further and putting most stat points into ATT/DEF, once you reach the Gauntlet, you'll get crushed by the higher level players, no matter what.

Any way you slice it, when you get to the Gauntlet you can be crushed by (some of) the higher level players. There's no way around that. The question is, which higher level players will want to crush you, and how many of them will be able to?

Unless you check out of PvP entirely, which is another option.

Someone who powerlevels their way to 150 will lose to you if you take the slow route to level 80 (and probably continue to lose to you for quite some time). Because you will have all those extra skill points from blessings that they don't have, and you will have all those extra Att/Def points that they spent on Energy. Yes, you'll still lose to Luxor the Moonprince.

Unless/until they change the game mechanics, you will *always* lose to Luxor the Moonprince. So make it so that you can gain more from attacking the impatient level 150s than you lose to Luxor the Moonprince, and send him a friend request should he chain attack you.


Especially since while you'd build your character the slow way, these players would be hunting monsters and doing quests to progress. Instead of entering the Gauntlet when these players would be level 160 (example), you'd enter it when they would be level 220 (example).

Yes, but they'll be level 220 with 500 stamina and 800 energy. And their attack/defense will still be less than yours.

Punkle
11-17-2009, 09:37 PM
Good one Ragnar :)

Hope the will sticky it :P

Jehann
11-17-2009, 11:50 PM
don't complain because you don't have the new Flying Airship battle unit and everybody else has one.

I want one! /whine

Seriously, though, nicely done.

Muaddid
11-18-2009, 12:29 AM
I see it like Sophia too, if you spend your early points into energy and stam (up to like 100 in both), and only attack 50 times a day to get your max pvp-demi points (and that's really easy to do, even with 1 attack with an army of 501 Tree Ent, and you wont even get attacked much because there's always ppl with less army that are easy to attack), you'll reach lvl 80 fast but you wont be a prime target because you'll still be low-ranked.
Even as LT Gen at lvl 80, i never got chained or attacked enough to set me back.

Sure you wont have the extra points from praying or extra items from demi-points someone who has been playing longer than you will have when they reach lvl 80, but by then youll be much higher lvl, which does mean many more skillpoints (as well as skill points from sub quests).

If i had had more stamina early on, i could have attacked dragons much more, even for low dmg, to get free units and free land, something that is precious at low level... and free demi-points, to catch that slow leveler ;)

Getting an army of 501 asap is so significant at low level even if just from the sheer amount of gifts you can get that will turn into weapons :)

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 02:08 AM
You'll reach lvl 80 fast but you wont be a prime target because you'll still be low-ranked.

How is this an advantage, if you ever want to get into PvP? If you don't want to get into Combat, fine, but otherwise you've dug yourself a huge hole. How are you going to get above your low rank without attracting that attention?

I suppose you can hide your way to Baron. Whoo, lord, you'll have an army of people ready to dish you payback, though.


Even as LT Gen at lvl 80, i never got chained or attacked enough to set me back.

With respect, please respond to the substance of the post, instead of offering an anecdote of 1. Your experience in the game, particularly if you've been at level 80+ since mid-October, is significantly different from other long-term players. Your experience of the post-80 world is very skewed in the context of the entire history of the game. It used to be well nigh impossible to find targets that weren't already dead or hiding... because *everybody* was fighting. Granted, it may very well be that your experience will map the near future. However, if there is one given in Facebook games it is that the game is going to change. The advice on this particular thread is predicated on that assumption, and is telling people how best to take advantage of the dynamic nature of the game... "surf the updates" if you will.


Sure you wont have the extra points from praying or extra items from demi-points someone who has been playing longer than you will have when they reach lvl 80, but by then youll be much higher lvl, which does mean many more skillpoints (as well as skill points from sub quests).

Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated. If people are following your advice, generally, then people will be balanced according to your proposed method of allocating skill points. On the other hand, anyone who is *not* following your advice (and instead is following mine) will have a 24 point advantage in skill points among the players that are level 80 *when* they hit level 80.

This is not about keeping up with someone who starts on the same day that you do, and using "level" as the sole metric for success. It's about having a relative advantage over other players who are focused around your level at any snapshot in time.

Someone who starts today likely won't face the gauntlet at 80, in any event. They've already moved it, they're likely to move it again.


If i had had more stamina early on, i could have attacked dragons much more, even for low dmg, to get free units and free land, something that is precious at low level... and free demi-points, to catch that slow leveler ;)

Again, you're working off of a completely different viewpoint. You're trying to "catch" someone (presumably by leveling). Yes, this means that you'll be level 300 before a PvP player will be level 150. You will have completed all the quests and all the subquests and defeated scads of monsters. That PvP player will not only be able to still beat you in Combat, they will *always* be able to do so (unless you break out a credit card), because they will be ahead of you in Attack and Defense, and every time they level they will be getting farther ahead of you... whereas every time you level you will be struggling to catch up... and you can't, because you have to continue to invest in Stamina and Energy in order to level, because it costs you 10x in XP what it costs them to level. You only gain back 12 Energy/Stamina an hour. That's 288 a day. Having a Stamina of 288 only helps you in two instances: if you don't log in more than once a day, and when you level. And again, those levelings come farther and farther apart as you get up there in level... so that WHOO FREE REFILL comes less and less often.

Again, assuming you don't break out the credit card.


Getting an army of 501 asap is so significant at low level even if just from the sheer amount of gifts you can get that will turn into weapons :)

I did not have an Army of 501 until I was about level 120. I didn't even crack 300 until 80. I beat players by investing points in Attack and Defense (which is vastly more important than Army size, as numerous threads on the boards can attest). Even those who could beat me by Army (or troops) would lose in a Duel, so every chain attack was met with a chain attack in return until they sued for peace.

paqqy
11-18-2009, 04:24 AM
don't complain because you don't have the new Flying Airship battle unit and everybody else has one.

Wait, there's a flying airship battle unit called "Doom Thundercougarfalconbird" with 200/100? :eek:

just kidding, of course

I like your posts, Ragnar! Now, if you could explain to me how you get any work done with all these posts...

xienwolf
11-18-2009, 05:23 AM
I would have to agree with Sophia that investing in energy early on is a wise course. And praying to Azeron or popping a few into Stamina as well, even if just so that you can do a Power Attack against dragons.

Disclaimer: I moved through "The Guantlet" during this update frenzy when PvP may have been drastically under-attended, so never felt any "pain" from it, and to this day don't see how anyone can ever feel any pain from being chained. You lose very little cash, and virtually negligible XP, and can regain the Battle Points very rapidly by attacking some people who are a couple ranks above yourself.



By investing in Energy, and then Stamina, before you bother investing anywhere else, you can get yourself to the position of never "filling up" while you are asleep or at work. Once you reach this point, every minute of your time is being utilized to advance your character. Before that point, you are effectively losing time whenever your energy or stamina reaches the cap and you haven't logged on to spend it.


Once you have reached that point (about 108 in each stat, so 105*2 stamina and 98 Energy, for a net of 308 Stat points, or roughly 60 Levels) you can start to focus on Attack and Defense so that you are capable of handling PvP gracefully. You will master the Influence for Quests fairly gradually, and level somewhat slowly at this point, allowing your Demi Powers to begin building up. Yes, you will be behind on Demi Points as compared to other players of your level who followed the method outlined in this guide, and you will have FAR less Attack and Defense than them. But the catch is: There are still PLENTY of viable targets which you will be capable of taking down. Especially if you have invested in building up your army size, or have gotten fortunate with dragon/hydra drops.

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 05:30 AM
But the catch is: There are still PLENTY of viable targets which you will be capable of taking down. Especially if you have invested in building up your army size, or have gotten fortunate with dragon/hydra drops.

What is your battle rank? You say there are "plenty of available targets" - what sort of targets are you shooting for?

If you're intending on battling, presumably you want to get to the Duke rank eventually. I can tell you that High Generals and above are not easy to find. Ones that aren't PvPers are rarer still. I think there's currently three or four (perhaps a few others that are in my Army), and they're always dead, as all the PvP players are routinely dragging their carcasses down the street for the 10 BP.

If you're looking for Lieutenant Commanders, yes you'll certainly find plenty. I don't get BPs for attacking Lieutenant Commanders, and I'm just a High General.

Sophia Dragonhunter
11-18-2009, 05:31 AM
Yeah, or they'd have to wait less than an hour. Okay, fair enough, it's not "instant leveling", but c'mon, you can certainly get from level 1 to mid-teens in far less than a day.
True enough. I was merely stating the obvious.


For what?

That's not intended to be snarky, it's an honest question. For what? You're spending skill points so that you can acquire skill points faster. Why not just spend the skill points more evenly so that your character stays viable for all playing options and get the skill points as they come?

I understand raising your Energy to a point, especially if you have limited logins per day. But if you're getting spending skill points to acquire skill points faster, *but the cost of getting those skill points continues to increase* (as the XP requirement keeps going up), you get sucked into the power leveling maelstrom.

But, in game terms, that *only* matters if you're a PvPer, because you want the advantage over the other players you can attack. Otherwise, "leveling faster to acquire stat points faster" doesn't give you an advantage over other players, all it does is bring you up to the gauntlet faster.
I do not suggest raising one's energy above 120. I suggest raising it to 120 as soon as possible, because one will eventually need to raise it to 120 anyway. Reaching that point sooner ensures that you get your free skill points faster. I mean, if you get a 120 energy refill each time you level up (and at the beginning of the game, you will level pretty fast), then that means 120 points of energy used to complete quests. A 105 points investment in energy will end up being worth 786 free stat points. The sooner you get your energy up to 120, the sooner you'll be able to gather those 786 stat points. If you wait before increasing your energy up to 120, you will get those stat points much slower than if you had 120 energy right from the start. I would've thought you would be the best to see it this way, knowing that it took you almost 10 months to complete every quest (prior to the Undead Realm). If one waited before increasing their energy, it would probably take them more than 15 months to complete every quest. This is why I think increasing your energy up to 120 is a top priority when first starting. You do not have to use the stat points you gain doing quests to increase your energy further. Instead, use them to boost your attack or defense or whatever your goal in the game is. It's an investment. The more you invest at start, the more you'll end up with in a given time.


What do you mean by "catch up with the older players"? In level? In "Battles Won" or "Players Eliminated"? In "Quests Completed"?
In stat points allocated in attack and defense. Now, it would normally be impossible, but thanks to the Gauntlet, if one levels faster than the older players, thanks to higher energy and stamina (~120 in both), and invests every stat points they gain from leveling up and doing quests into attack and defense, then they might be able to one day beat the older players. This is all thanks to the Gauntlet, because it becomes a free for all. I know a new player will never be able to be as strong as an older player of the same level, but if the new player leveled up enough to counter the fact that the older player has had way more demi-blessings than them, there might be hope.


Any way you slice it, when you get to the Gauntlet you can be crushed by (some of) the higher level players. There's no way around that. The question is, which higher level players will want to crush you, and how many of them will be able to?

Unless you check out of PvP entirely, which is another option.

Someone who powerlevels their way to 150 will lose to you if you take the slow route to level 80 (and probably continue to lose to you for quite some time). Because you will have all those extra skill points from blessings that they don't have, and you will have all those extra Att/Def points that they spent on Energy. Yes, you'll still lose to Luxor the Moonprince.

Unless/until they change the game mechanics, you will *always* lose to Luxor the Moonprince. So make it so that you can gain more from attacking the impatient level 150s than you lose to Luxor the Moonprince, and send him a friend request should he chain attack you.
Entering the Gauntlet with a low rank reduces your chances of getting crushed. If one plans ahead and thinks in the long run, they will one day be able to compete with the Legends. Luxor has already said it: he fears the new generation of power-levelers. He knows that one day, in a veeeeerry long time, they will be stronger than him. 2 have already done it, and it's just the beginning. Times have changed, the game is not being played the same as it was before. I know the older players will always suggest going the slow route, because that's how they did it and it worked for them, but the reality is that things have changed with the addition of monsters.


Yes, but they'll be level 220 with 500 stamina and 800 energy. And their attack/defense will still be less than yours.
Oh, when I said "these players", I meant the older players - the Legends -, not the power-levelers. So they'll be level 220 with combined attack/defense of 1.5k instead of level 160 players with combined attack/defense of 1k. This is why entering the Gauntlet as soon as possible, with a low rank, is the best idea right now. You can have a combined attack/defense of 500 at level 80 and still be at a low rank, such as Acolyte, simply so you are not much of a target while you're building up your character to be a PvP. Then when you feel you can compete with the older players, you can freely increase your rank and not fear those players as much as you would've if you entered the Gauntlet at level 80 as a High General.

All in all, I do not think your advice is bad per se, I just think it's a tad outdated. You're suggesting the newer players to play the game as you have played it, instead of adapting to the new features of the game.

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 05:38 AM
By investing in Energy, and then Stamina, before you bother investing anywhere else, you can get yourself to the position of never "filling up" while you are asleep or at work. Once you reach this point, every minute of your time is being utilized to advance your character. Before that point, you are effectively losing time whenever your energy or stamina reaches the cap and you haven't logged on to spend it.

This is true... but...


Once you have reached that point (about 108 in each stat, so 105*2 stamina and 98 Energy, for a net of 308 Stat points, or roughly 60 Levels) you can start to focus on Attack and Defense so that you are capable of handling PvP gracefully.

... at this point, it's too late. You're level 60. You have 20 levels to go until you hit the gauntlet (maybe 30 if they up it before you get there). That's 100 or 150 Skill points. And since you're burning through ~900-1100 or so XP every day, you're going to hit 80 fast. Maybe a couple of weeks at most. Only 14 more Skill points from Blessings.

That is nowhere near enough to enable you to battle against any large volume of players that are worth BP. If you hit 60 with 308 Stat points invested in Stamina and Energy, you're going to be an Acolyte. If you start battling then, you may be a Knight by the time you hit 80. Maybe by the time you hit 90 you'll be a general.

You'll be a very, very weak general. Commanders aren't worth BP to you any more. To get to Duke takes fifty thousand battle points. If you have to earn those 1 at a time, it's going to take you a long, long time. Especially since PvPers will be taking BP away from you in large chunks.

Again, if you don't care about Combat, this whole thread is not really germane to your playing style or your strategy.

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 05:42 AM
All in all, I do not think your advice is bad per se, I just think it's a tad outdated. You're suggesting the newer players to play the game as you have played it, instead of adapting to the new features of the game.

(sigh).

No, I'm not. I've watched this game, and four other facebook games, go through cycles of development. I've also invested more time playing various sorts of unit, time, skill, strategy, and mathematical combinatorics games than probably all but maybe three other people on the forum. Hell, I've probably logged more hours thinking about games and game design than most of the Forum, combined :) I'm a long time table top nerd, and I've been playing video games for 30 years. Holy crud, it's been thirty years. The game as I've played it... my strategy... wasn't maximal for the way it was then, as Luxor and Nocturnal Blade and others can attest. They're better than I am at PvP. Until Monsters came out, anyone would say (and many probably did say) my strategy was suboptimal. Because it was. I'm not talking about a maximal strategy at any given point in time. Heck, I beat all the Quests to Level 4 and in game terms that goal currently means nothing.

I'm talking about a least pessimum strategy, which will work no matter what updates come out, over time... as opposed to attempting to have a most optimal strategy, which will fail as the game changes dynamically.

THIS strategy is not optimal. It's not designed to be. Trying to design an optimal strategy to a game that is under development is an exercise in futility.

It's also going to frustrate the hell out of you when they change something in a way that really damages the ability of your "optimized" strategy to compete, for however you define "competition".

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 05:48 AM
This is why entering the Gauntlet as soon as possible, with a low rank, is the best idea right now. You can have a combined attack/defense of 500 at level 80 and still be at a low rank, such as Acolyte, simply so you are not much of a target while you're building up your character to be a PvP. Then when you feel you can compete with the older players, you can freely increase your rank and not fear those players as much as you would've if you entered the Gauntlet at level 80 as a High General.

You need to crunch your numbers. Your idea is sound in theory, but the practical logistics of the XP increases required per level and the available venues to get skill points breaks your idea. You will never be able to compete with the higher level players this way.

These are the ways you can get skill points: blessings (day-limited, the longer you play the more you have), quest completions (energy-and-therefore-time limited, the more often you play the more you have), Battle Ranks, and leveling.

Blessings are the key. They are the only thing that you can get, every day, no matter what else you do. The more days you play, the more of them you have.

By speeding up the rate at which you level, you effectively reach all other landmarks *faster*, which reduces the number of blessings you get. If you're talking about 2 months of play, that's an additional 60 Skill Points, or what you would get from gaining 12 levels.

Again, unless you break out the credit card (or, alternatively, there is always the chance that an update critically breaks game balance and you leverage it before the developers fix it... or you cheat. Those are other possibilities).

Sophia Dragonhunter
11-18-2009, 06:08 AM
(sigh).

No, I'm not. I've watched this game, and four other facebook games, go through cycles of development. I've also invested more time playing various sorts of unit, time, skill, strategy, and mathematical combinatorics games than probably all but maybe three other people on the forum. I'm a long time table top nerd, and I've been playing video games for 30 years. Holy crud, it's been thirty years. The game as I've played it wasn't maximal for the way it was then, as Luxor and Nocturnal Blade and others can attest. They're better than I am at PvP. Until Monsters came out, anyone would say (and many probably did say) my strategy was suboptimal. Because it was. I'm not talking about a maximal strategy at any given point in time.

I'm talking about a least pessimum strategy, which will work no matter what updates come out, over time... as opposed to attempting to have a most optimal strategy, which will fail as the game changes dynamically.

THIS strategy is not optimal. It's not designed to be. Trying to design an optimal strategy to a game that is under development is an exercise in futility.

It's also going to frustrate the hell out of you when they change something in a way that really damages the ability of your "optimized" strategy to compete, for however you define "competition".

Ok I get your point now. Your strategy is about how to stay well-balanced no matter what the new updates are, while mine is about how to be as good as possible with the current features. I must have missed the point of this thread in the first place.

However, I still have a few points to make.


You need to crunch your numbers. Your idea is sound in theory, but the practical logistics of the XP increases required per level and the available venues to get skill points breaks your idea. You will never be able to compete with the higher level players this way.
Even if you level more and more slowly, you will however level faster than say Luxor who has 60 stamina points and 105 energy (for example). You *will* be able to one day compete with this type of player, assuming the parameters of the game stay the same (which probably won't, but for the sake of this argument, let's assume they will), because you would have more energy and stamina to spend each time you leveled up. It might take you a very long time, but you will eventually get there if you keep playing the game. The XP required to level up increases for you, but it surely increases for Luxor too. Even if it's just 60 more stamina points that you have over him, that's still ~170 more experience points than him each time you level up, and in the long run it's the only way to possibly catch up with him (other than using a credit card).


These are the ways you can get skill points: blessings (day-limited, the longer you play the more you have), quest completions (energy-and-therefore-time limited, the more often you play the more you have), Battle Ranks, and leveling.

Blessings are the key. They are the only thing that you can get, every day, no matter what else you do. The more days you play, the more of them you have.

By speeding up the rate at which you level, you effectively reach all other landmarks *faster*, which reduces the number of blessings you get. If you're talking about 2 months of play, that's an additional 60 Skill Points, or what you would get from gaining 12 levels.
I'm talking about two players who start at the same time: one following your strategy, the other following mine. They would both get the same amount of demi-blessings one compared to the other, but once both players would reach the Gauntlet, the player who followed my strategy would have the upper hand, because he would have more stat points from quests, better units/items/spells from monster drops (and more favor points) and be higher in level. The player who followed your strategy would only have a few more stat points from battle ranks, but not enough to compensate for their level difference. If it wasn't for the Gauntlet, then I would totally agree with you. But since there is a Gauntlet, the most important thing is being as high a level as possible while still investing most stat points in attack/defense.

paqqy
11-18-2009, 02:05 PM
O_O Where was this conversation when I first started playing? I feel like I really started wrong from the start!

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 03:36 PM
Even if you level more and more slowly, you will however level faster than say Luxor who has 60 stamina points and 105 energy (for example). You *will* be able to one day compete with this type of player, assuming the parameters of the game stay the same (which probably won't, but for the sake of this argument, let's assume they will), because you would have more energy and stamina to spend each time you leveled up. It might take you a very long time, but you will eventually get there if you keep playing the game. The XP required to level up increases for you, but it surely increases for Luxor too. Even if it's just 60 more stamina points that you have over him, that's still ~170 more experience points than him each time you level up, and in the long run it's the only way to possibly catch up with him (other than using a credit card).

No, it's not. Look, I wrote a few threads about this strategy months ago, and at the time I thought it might work, because I wasn't sure how the level progression went. If the game designers picked up an old D&D book and set experience levels like they do in first edition AD&D, yes, it would work, because level XP requirements go flat.

Here, they don't. Strategy busted. Ask Ranko how well it worked out for him, he was the player that took the "up the stamina and energy" route, and he was 50 or more levels ahead of everyone before Battle Ranks came out. Then Battle Ranks came out, and he found out he couldn't beat *anybody*, and all the other players were unlocking the new units and content, and he started balancing his character.

I don't have the XP charts, because I didn't keep track as I leveled. But I assure you, the increase in requirement at the higher level more than makes up for the increase in stamina and energy.

At some point, using your idea, you need to cut over from building Energy and Stamina to building Attack and Defense. But when you do that, your leveling rate goes from 1/day to 1/week in short order, because the XP requirements are insane. You can't get enough Attack and Defense in that window to make up for Luxor's advantage, and then you'll be in the same boat that you are now, where his rate of increase is still bigger than yours. It's a basic related rates problem. In two days, he gets enough to level. He gets 5 skill points, and he distributes them the way he's been distributing them. In four days, you get enough to level, but you're dumping them all in Attack or Defense, you're still not anywhere near where he is, and the time for you to reach your *next* next level just went to four days, two hours. And so on.


I'm talking about two players who start at the same time: one following your strategy, the other following mine. They would both get the same amount of demi-blessings one compared to the other, but once both players would reach the Gauntlet, the player who followed my strategy would have the upper hand, because he would have more stat points from quests, better units/items/spells from monster drops (and more favor points) and be higher in level. The player who followed your strategy would only have a few more stat points from battle ranks, but not enough to compensate for their level difference. If it wasn't for the Gauntlet, then I would totally agree with you. But since there is a Gauntlet, the most important thing is being as high a level as possible while still investing most stat points in attack/defense.

Your analysis is broken, as it is predicated on the fact that one player levels faster than the other but they both hit the Gauntlet at the same time. You're also only comparing A to B, which is a pointless comparison unless you start on the same day as your frenemy and the goal is to stay ahead *only* of them. Okay, that's probably the case for some people reading this thread.

I'd crunch the math, but I don't have time this morning.

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 03:36 PM
This is a closed game. In game design terms, it means you don't (really) bring anything to the table from the outside world, including strategic skills. There is no terrain or technology advantages. There is no unit progression. There are no formation advantages. Battle is done by tallying up two totals and comparing them to each other with a very small chance percentage that's really only noticeable if you fight the same person, over and over, and you're following roughly the same progressive tracks. The leveling is not linear, it's progressive. There are only so many routes to gain skill points, and none of them are mutually exclusive.

Game design being what it is, new players will never "catch" the old players unless certain things come to pass:

The Older Player quits
The Older Player loses motivation, and stops logging in frequently
The Younger Player discovers a game exploit
The Younger Player pays money
The Younger Player cheats (uses Alt accounts, whatever)


That's it. You don't have to believe me (I know you don't *want* to believe me), but there is no other way, unless the game parameters change.

Here's how the game parameters could change in a way that would make it possible for younger players to "catch" older players:


Force multipliers - unit combinatorial factors, terrain considerations, anything tactical in the combat system (this means young players can catch dumber older players that don't read the Forums, at least).
Actual character types - forking everyone into classes (Wizard, Barbarian, etc) giving each advantages in progression trees and certain tactical advantages and disadvantages (this comes necessarily with #1)
A completely new branch of the game that depends on a new stat that nobody has (assuming the rewards are significant enough, some new players would take that route and some {but not all} of the older players wouldn't, you could catch *those* older players) - this might have been a design consideration when they added Monsters, but they did it wrong, since Stamina and Attack were already part of the game, and already parts of the PvPer's arsenal
A fork in an existing tree that requires completion - for example, if they made it so that the Undead realm required ALL of the previous quests and subquests to be completed to Level 4 before you could unlock it, some newer players would have been in there before players like Luxor or SawIIc, because they've never focused on Energy at all. Note that this still doesn't help new players against *all* the old players, because (ahem) I finished all the Quests and I would have been one of the first players INTO the Undead realm. And boy howdy, would I have been laughing at older players have s******ed at my loss rate and said, "If you put all those skill points into Att/Def instead of Energy, you wouldn't have 2,000 more losses than me and what do your extra 3,000 quests mean?" :D
Change the Demi Blessings (or some mechanism like it) to be much greater and random. You still get you 100 Demi Points, but instead of getting +1 in your stat you get +25 or something, but only one out of every 1000 players gets it. Statistically, the older players would get fewer of these than the younger players just on probability distribution. Somewhere a set of the younger players would get lucky and get three of these, they'd have an advantage. This means that some younger player somewhere would make it into the old breed. But it's a chance thing.


Those are some of the methods that could be introduced that would keep the community engaged and keep everyone around, are certainly fair, and would give the younger players chances to catch some of the older players. Probably not Selenar, and definitely not me, but they'd at least be able to one day catch all the PvP focused players. There are scads of other ideas that would work as well.

Here's how the game parameters could change in a way that would make it possible for younger players to "catch" older players, but not in the way you think it would work:


Introduce a fork in a progression tree that gives a massive advantage to another progression tree, unfairly. Make it so that each Quest completion is now worth 10 Skill Points, for example. Again, won't work against all the older players, but about a third of them would just quit outright, so you'd progress in that sense.
Reduce the effect Attack/Defense have relative to units by a large factor, meaning large Armies built by Monster-Hunters can now beat PvPers routinely. Again, won't work against all the older players, but probably two thirds of them would quit outright, so you'd progress in that sense. This is what old-timey gamers call "The Monty Haul" campaign.
Significantly up the Favor Points and XP rewards for Monster Hunting. This would give Monster Hunters a big influx of advantage over straight PvPers. However, it would really unbalance the game (and note, they've dropped the Favor Point rewards for Monster Hunting already).


Again, there are other ways. This particular game is at a crossroads point, the same one crossed by several other Facebook games. There is a die hard core that has been playing since the beginning, and a recent major change has led to a huge influx of players and most of those players coming in following a different progression path than most of the old breed. Right now, they don't see the weaknesses of their progression path because they're getting lots of cool drop units and lots of levels and WHOO! stuff! (and PvPers haven't been attacking in force because they've been poking their heads into Monster Hunting too). But the PvPers will start focusing on Duke and forgetting about the Hydra, and sooner or later those new players will try to up their Battle Rank, because it's an area of the game they haven't touched yet.

They've locked themselves out of that tree. You can already see it on the forum boards, the "I'm being chained" threads are restarting, the "I can't find anybody alive to fight" threads are reappearing. Level 180 players are getting trounced by level 100 players who have smaller armies and don't have all those cool drops that those Level 180 players thought were so important and spent all their time acquiring. Complaints flood in. The login rate drops.

And the Devs change something. I give them a 70-80% chance that they pick it wrong, critically unbalance the game, and the older players quit. The younger players will be ecstatic, until two months from now when they realize that the inevitable corollary of "I caught someone who started 6 months after me, and now I'm king of the hill!" is that someone who started 2 months after *them* is going to catch *them* and be king of the hill... and then *they* quit. The community burn doesn't take long, the app crashes within a couple of months and nobody's left.

Most people who design games on Facebook haven't played enough games to know ahead of time what's not going to work. They're also powerfully motivated to choose to give the crowd what they're screaming for, because the crowd pays. But if you can't keep players around, keeping the crowd happy is self defeating.

xienwolf
11-18-2009, 03:54 PM
What is your battle rank? You say there are "plenty of available targets" - what sort of targets are you shooting for?

If you're intending on battling, presumably you want to get to the Duke rank eventually. I can tell you that High Generals and above are not easy to find. Ones that aren't PvPers are rarer still. I think there's currently three or four (perhaps a few others that are in my Army), and they're always dead, as all the PvP players are routinely dragging their carcasses down the street for the 10 BP.

If you're looking for Lieutenant Commanders, yes you'll certainly find plenty. I don't get BPs for attacking Lieutenant Commanders, and I'm just a High General.

Plenty of targets does indeed assume a lower rank, currently I am hitting Commander Tier and still always find people whom I can defeat that are 2+ ranks above me. I am now over level 100, so no longer an obvious target, and typically I win on defense as many points as I lose whenoffline. I've never hidden, I chain attack people, and I've never noticed being chained.

Yes, Battle Rank of Commander may be low in your opinion for level 100, but Level 40 is low in my opinion for Battle Rank of General. Since so few other people in your bracket have decent ranking it is THAT build which suffers 1 BP gains per stamina I would think.

HouseNdaHouse
11-18-2009, 04:13 PM
Nice first attempt at a guide bro! See Droidlovers guides or Sophia's guides and see the difference colors/bolding/pictures make in your guides.

Now that you've gotten some feedback you can re-post something pretty and edited to include any changes you think are appropriate. Then we can all sticky it in our sig and tell noobs to click on it when they ask.... "what do I do cuz I'm new??"

Good job... ;)

Sophia Dragonhunter
11-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Ok you have convinced me. I agree with everything you said, except I still think going for 120 energy at first is a top priority, in order to acquire skill points for completing quests and subquests faster than if you had say, 32 energy for the first and second lands.

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 04:49 PM
Ok you have convinced me. I agree with everything you said, except I still think going for 120 energy at first is a top priority, in order to acquire skill points for completing quests and subquests faster than if you had say, 32 energy for the first and second lands.

This is a reasonable alternate strategy, given that you need at least 120 energy to complete all the quests. I still wouldn't put more than 30 points in Energy until I hit level 30 or so, myself (as that's when the refills start to pay off for higher amounts of Energy), but I can see it as a workable variant. The difference is probably noise by the time you get to level 80.

Of course, all of this is context-dependent on how often you log in, too. If you're only going to log in once a day, upping your stamina and energy a bit higher earlier is not a bad idea; but there's one additional factor, that I just thought of. Let's call it the Political Attack.

If you're under level 28, you can summon Emerald dragons. If you play your cards right, you can get all of the higher level players to join your Army and give you gifts, every day, because Emeralds are so dang hard to find.

You could start a new character, up your stamina to 15, and just sit and do *nothing* but gather gifts and take your daily blessing for three weeks, still be at level 10 or so, and summon emeralds for payouts by the older players. Hit each one you summon three times until it goes down, and collect the drops.

Then a month in you'd be level 20, have a pile of stuff, a relatively huge Att/Def for a level 20, and have all the people who *would* chain you when you do hit the gauntlet *already in your Army and grateful*.

Wow, that would totally work on me, that's for sure :)

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 04:54 PM
Nice first attempt at a guide bro! See Droidlovers guides or Sophia's guides and see the difference colors/bolding/pictures make in your guides.

Eh, anyone who needs the pretty to read the thread is probably the type who won't be able to overcome the bling gamer's attraction to the Epic Drops, and won't follow my advice here anyway :)

But after I do some actual work, I'll think about it...

xienwolf
11-18-2009, 07:42 PM
The Emerald Strategy is brilliant :)

Aquinas
11-18-2009, 08:00 PM
Most people who design games on Facebook haven't played enough games to know ahead of time what's not going to work. They're also powerfully motivated to choose to give the crowd what they're screaming for, because the crowd pays. But if you can't keep players around, keeping the crowd happy is self defeating.

I think that you are over-estimating the attention span of most people that play these games. Specially with the great number of new applications that appear every day. From a purely economical perspective, it makes sense for developers to try to cash out quickly by keeping the masses happy, and just develop a new similarly themed application later. In fact, this particular group has dozens of very similar games on facebook, the graphics and context might be different but the underlying platform is the same. A continuous cycle of new game generation that catches the attention of the ADD generation would to my mind give you the maximum return on your investment.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but that's just how I think things stand at the current moment. However, from a game design perspective, I really liked several of your ideas of how to make this game more strategic. I just don't think that the return one would see from a group of dedicated hard core users would outweigh the return of a new game generation cycle IMHO. Also, from what I have read in a few posts a large percentage of the Legends group pride themselves in NOT spending money for favor points and playing cleanly, which goes against your previous argument of generating larger revenue by keeping the smaller core happy.

Don't get me wrong, I like this game and I would be really pissed off if it died because the developers unbalanced it and most people decided to quit playing. However, for me the fun is in figuring out how to take advantage of every new thing that the developers come up with as well as in the social interaction with other players. If the game remained constant so as to prevent unbalances it would bore me to tears.

Z-Earth
11-18-2009, 08:49 PM
But if you don't, please don't start another "I'm being chain attacked!" thread. Because I will tell you right now, if you don't up your Att/Def, you will be chain attacked. Sooner or later, you will be chain attacked mercilessly. Someone will attack you hundreds of times a day, multiple days in a row. When you send them a Facebook message asking them to stop, they'll make fun of you. When you get all worked up about it, you're going to send another message and this one is going to contain something objectionable or downright stupid, and then your chain attacker (who has been playing this game for much longer than you have and has lots of friends who are also chain attackers) will get another dozen people to chain attack you. You will drop to zero Battle Points. This isn't harassment, it's part of the Combat aspect of the game.

Yeah, we need this in a golden front page when starting the game.

THEN people would know that whatever they do or not in the game, their labors would be fruitless, unless they join the choir of bullying the lower ranks and smirk happily like mice in flour heaps :]

Ragnar
11-18-2009, 10:48 PM
I think that you are over-estimating the attention span of most people that play these games.

I'm very much aware of the the attentions span of the average click-game player...


From a purely economical perspective, it makes sense for developers to try to cash out quickly by keeping the masses happy, and just develop a new similarly themed application later.

I realize that many people will take this route. It's historically the way things go with Facebook apps. You'll note, I only gave them a ~20% chance of not following this route...


However, from a game design perspective, I really liked several of your ideas of how to make this game more strategic.

Thanks! Although I really just collected a bunch of ideas that have already been implemented in various tabletop games throughout time... none of those are really original.


I just don't think that the return one would see from a group of dedicated hard core users would outweigh the return of a new game generation cycle IMHO.

In the short run, you're absolutely right. Feeding the masses junk food works as long as you monetize it fast enough and get out before the roof falls in. I can't say that I blame the Devs if they take this route, either, for just that reason.


However, for me the fun is in figuring out how to take advantage of every new thing that the developers come up with as well as in the social interaction with other players. If the game remained constant so as to prevent unbalances it would bore me to tears.

There's nothing wrong with making changes and getting them wrong, as long as you correct them fast enough. And it's sort of inherent in my playstyle to hope for updates, since I'm spread across the board... as long as the game stays static, players who are optimized for how the game looks now have an advantage over me. It's only when the game changes that I really benefit :)

Ragnar
11-19-2009, 04:30 PM
The Emerald Strategy is brilliant :)

I already have three Forum messages in my Inbox about it...

oO☼ﬞ Tricᶄsy-TriӾie ☼ﬞOo
08-31-2010, 06:31 AM
bump! Couldnt find the one I was looking for but this one touches on it. Ill try to find a couple of the others tomorrow when Im not so tired :)

great buddy
08-31-2010, 10:28 PM
I think the OP is right in a way ,BUT a player should have a minimum 250 energy and stamina to be good at levelling up .an offensive build up 2:1 with a BSI of 4 maybe 4,5 is more than enough to be very good at pvp.very few players upgrade the BSI above 5 because that would mean levelling up once every 2 or more days.and 75 percent of pvp players want to level up every day so they can reach the gauntlet soon ,not in 2 years.i have played for 8- 9 months and was a pure pvp untill level 90 .but it tooked me too much time to level up sow i upgraded stamina to about 250 .i regret that but i think i did the right thing .if i would have upgraded energy ,would have been better but stamina is also good it helped me reach prince rank easy because a player with high stats and high stamina can get lots of BP and can switch easy beetwen monster hunting and pvp.with a balanced 5 BSI,270 stamina and 250 energy and 4 LSI i am good at monster hunting ,can get all medals ,have very good attack and defense and if i hide for more than 1 day all my bookmarkers give up on me. i can heal a party health easy and do quests easy with 288 energy and stamina regeneration every day ..i would level up to king but dont find juicy targets on level 181 and dont like to bookmark.beeing a pure pvp untill level 90 it tooked me 5 months to level up.i dont think i would do that again because no matter how good you are you still get defeated .only if you upgrade defense and become a wall build type 1 attack 3 defense, only than you cant be defeated.just for the record i have barely been attacked in the last month .The higher the rank and army size you have, the lower the chance you get to be attacked .if a player has a high rank he wont get attacked much he only needs to worry about bookmarkers but he should hide because there are even players with 9 BSI who love BP and chaining.If a player has a little battle rank or an intermediate he will be attacked much more often.also a 501 army and few defeats makes other players avoid you more.i was attacked.... 6 days ago:p.if you cant defend just hide like me.logg in and first get the demy points from 50 duels and hide .than do the quests having low health and search for monsters if you like them .NOBODY can touch you .you are not listed on the battle page therefore you are invincible .5 BSI is not reliable for pvp but neither is 6 only 7 is good.so whats the point of upgrading attack and defense to have 7 BSI ? if i could reach High King now ,i would start upgrading energy and stamina to become a power leveller and be able to defend my rank not just get it.im now thinking to upgrade energy nevertheless because its very hard to get king .if i find a player with baron rank who could give me 3 BP he is always dead or too week to attack :o.

servetus
09-01-2010, 12:04 AM
hmm. interesting guide. ok make it simple i'm hot new in this game, now i'm at level 19
with: Energy 64,
Stamina 37 ,
Att 21,
Deff 13,
Health 100
army 19 and 9 upgrade point
so what should i do next?

great buddy
09-01-2010, 09:48 AM
think what you want to become .pure pvp ,hybrid { pvp and monster hunter } monster hunter or quester .a pure pvp has 100 -150 energy ,and around 125 stamina on level 170-200 {my level bracket } .a hybrid has 200 energy and around 150-200 stamina .a monster hunter should have 500 energy and 250 stamina because if a player has more energy than stamina he can level up faster and therefore he can do more damage than a player who has around 350 stamina for example. you can also post your stats and goals {what you want to become } in the official stat check topic : http://www.castleageforums.com/cforum/showthread.php?t=31522 .post it at the last page .

servetus
09-01-2010, 11:58 AM
think what you want to become .pure pvp ,hybrid { pvp and monster hunter } monster hunter or quester .a pure pvp has 100 -150 energy ,and around 125 stamina on level 170-200 {my level bracket } .a hybrid has 200 energy and around 150-200 stamina .a monster hunter should have 500 energy and 250 stamina because if a player has more energy than stamina he can level up faster and therefore he can do more damage than a player who has around 350 stamina for example. you can also post your stats and goals {what you want to become } in the official stat check topic : http://www.castleageforums.com/cforum/showthread.php?t=31522 .post it at the last page .


Yes right you got the point. and thanks choosing the right thread :):)