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Adurna
09-23-2013, 11:18 AM
Hi there^^

I'm considering adding sp to energy/stamina indefinitely. However, from some post some time ago I read that it's not a very viable option since at some point you're gonna run out of sp sources so that you can't balance the increasing exp requirements with the adding of energy/stamina.

So this is why I forgot about it for some time. Until I saw a post here about someone who had a huge amount of stamina and was leveling up daily/twice a day. Is it possible to reach that kind of build without too much refilling?

I'm currently level 470 and I'm leveling up every two days...

n3r086
09-23-2013, 12:32 PM
I personally thing that high LSI build will hit the wall faster than other builds, thus losing their primary advantage (which is leveling up -- full stamina and energy refill).

If you read dww's thread, she can do it, along with thexbob (thought I don't know their FP refill rate).

Think carefully before choosing this build as you'll be very weak in terms of PvP. If you still choose this build, consider your target LSI and work to maintain it. I personally think LSI of 7 is a good start.

I think someone has a spreadsheet about total SPs you can gain from the game so far :)

dennisngu
09-23-2013, 01:37 PM
In my opinion, adding stamina and energy indefinitely makes you too weak in PvP, and hence, limited options of how you can play the game. Just go for hybrid build. And if you want optimal hybrid build, I suggest just getting your stamina up to 1000, and your energy up to 1000. Personally I do not recommend getting your energy to 2000 but if you want to take advantage of an energy refill without wasting it, then go for 2000. If you do go for 2000, watch out because it'll be extremely hard to catch up in PvP.

KegOfAle
09-23-2013, 02:23 PM
As a power leveler who has transitioned to hybrid, I can tell you that running a high lsi is great until you start running up against monster thresholds for damage/healing. When you are not power leveling enough to level up daily and must start relying on naturally regenerated energy and stamina, hunting can become problematic (i.e. having issues covering your damage). What I have found to be an effective strategy is to pair defense with energy and attack with stamina. So if I level up every two days, I would add the five sp from leveling up to energy and pray for defense for two days. Any sp from questing would then be split between energy and defense, if it wasn't needed elsewhere, such as health for guild battles. I maintain a more moderate lsi, but am able to effectively hunt what I want to, though I will likely stay closer to the power leveler end of the hybrid spectrum than the pvp end of it. You should also consider that with the introduction of runes and item archives, there are some non-sp options for raising bsi stats, but there are no non-sp options for raising lsi stats.

Dr Devious
09-23-2013, 02:28 PM
I started with 1k stamina 2k energy then took bsi to 6 now adding more energy and stamina for a while.

Adurna
09-23-2013, 03:17 PM
Thank for your feedback :D

Right now I have 1000 attack 1000 defence 600 stamina and I'm going for 2000 energy.

So, well, as for monster breakpoints I should be fine for some time: I'm currently hunting Aurora and according to this http://www.castleageforums.com/cforum/showthread.php?t=63738 I should be fine till Svarog (which will take at least a year).

I'm not really fond of pvp, I just do conquest invades to reach the bronze ingots. And I keep my bsi only to be able to help a bit in guild battles.

So I should keep my build a bit balanced?

Draconus
09-23-2013, 06:37 PM
I doubt anyone will ever confuse me as being among the High LSI crowd. But at present I'm having no trouble at all holding a nice steady leveling pace of right at every 7 days without any refills even while adding to my BSI.

Getting a Demi Blessing from Ambrosia Monday through Friday and Azeron on Saturday gives me +6 Energy and +2 Stamina every level while every SP gained from leveling and such still goes to A&D.

Those wishing to level at a faster pace and not so concerned with BSI can go a very long way covering their needs in Attack via Runes, Item Archives, and +Monster Attack generals. Combinations of which could easily supply their needs for attack at least up to Aspect of Death battles. As such their only serious concern would be for enough Defense to cover their monster battle Healing needs.

pi3142
09-23-2013, 11:31 PM
As such their only serious concern would be for enough Defense to cover their monster battle Healing needs.

If you have the typical 2k e 1k s build and using a hitter like Maalvus you should have inordinate amounts of spare energy to heal your damage. Dumping 1000s using a triple hitter usually only requires 100-160e below threshold. Level up, dump s, then cover with e, then use the balance to do whatever you want. No problems healing there.

Major
09-24-2013, 02:08 AM
Hi there^^
I'm currently level 470 and I'm leveling up every two days...

Get Energy to 2k, Stamina to 1k, (FP refill limits). Then pray to Azeron for more stamina.

Then add SP's to Attack/Defence, until you get a BSI min of 5, preferable higher.

dances with wolves
09-24-2013, 08:18 PM
Hi there^^

I'm considering adding sp to energy/stamina indefinitely. However, from some post some time ago I read that it's not a very viable option since at some point you're gonna run out of sp sources so that you can't balance the increasing exp requirements with the adding of energy/stamina.

So this is why I forgot about it for some time. Until I saw a post here about someone who had a huge amount of stamina and was leveling up daily/twice a day. Is it possible to reach that kind of build without too much refilling?

I'm currently level 470 and I'm leveling up every two days...

You can reduce your time to level considerably, from 48 hours now to maybe 30 or 24 hours by allocating EVERY skillpoint you get into energy, assuming you get 10 or 11 skillpoints every level, for about 350 more levels, so it's not a short term project.

If you don't want a true high LSI build the likes of mine or thexbob's, then stop adding to energy at some point and add some to BSI to become a hybrid.

thexbob and I refill maybe once out of every 20 levels, me a lot less now that I level 2 times a day.

dcp1999
09-24-2013, 09:40 PM
I doubt anyone will ever confuse me as being among the High LSI crowd. But at present I'm having no trouble at all holding a nice steady leveling pace of right at every 7 days without any refills even while adding to my BSI.

Getting a Demi Blessing from Ambrosia Monday through Friday and Azeron on Saturday gives me +6 Energy and +2 Stamina every level while every SP gained from leveling and such still goes to A&D.


This is basically what I do, only I powered my ENE to 2000 and my STA to 1000 first, holding BSI constant at 4.5. I found that while doing that, I could maintain a 2X per week leveling speed without refills, and have not noticed it decreasing significantly.

lunav
09-25-2013, 01:02 AM
I PLed until about lv700+ then ran into a wall doing powerful monsters since I couldn't get past their breakpoint and keep doing base damage, so I started adding everything into attack to become a hybrid.

Going full LSI is good if you like huge level number for epeen but its an inefficient build and you can only do monsters. Not very efficiently though so you need to resort to antisocial behavior like a certain individual, hitting non-main parts on main kills and only doing 5M damage.

Cerbykins
09-25-2013, 02:46 AM
Hi there^^

I'm considering adding sp to energy/stamina indefinitely. However, from some post some time ago I read that it's not a very viable option since at some point you're gonna run out of sp sources so that you can't balance the increasing exp requirements with the adding of energy/stamina.

So this is why I forgot about it for some time. Until I saw a post here about someone who had a huge amount of stamina and was leveling up daily/twice a day. Is it possible to reach that kind of build without too much refilling?

I'm currently level 470 and I'm leveling up every two days...


I personally thing that high LSI build will hit the wall faster than other builds, thus losing their primary advantage (which is leveling up -- full stamina and energy refill).

If you read dww's thread, she can do it, along with thexbob (thought I don't know their FP refill rate).

Think carefully before choosing this build as you'll be very weak in terms of PvP. If you still choose this build, consider your target LSI and work to maintain it. I personally think LSI of 7 is a good start.

I think someone has a spreadsheet about total SPs you can gain from the game so far :)

This mostly relies on living within your means...in the short term, you do what I can't quite bring myself to do and eat the quest/SP content rapidly. As you get within a few lands of having cleaned out all the content, slow your pace down and make it so that you're not consuming SPs faster than the devs put them out.

In reality, I'm sluggish and off the pace and have quite a few lands spare (can't bring myself to farm or steer more to LSI) but if you were focused on that particular problem, that's how I'd solve it.

To that end, if I ever find I'm eating SPs too fast (unlikely but possible) Solara is on hand to make sure I get more stam and less energy on level-up to cut that rate a bit more.

thexbob
09-25-2013, 03:03 AM
Well, I'm the crazy fella who has 5000 energy, going on 6000, and levels more often than once a day. Might stop at 6000 energy for at least a while (but no promises). I do need to get a better balance between engineering and hunter medals though. For me "stopping" means dumping points into stamina instead of energy. I'm more likely to add to health than attack or defense in the short term (except for misclicks:()

It's about 2.6 million energy to get through the quests (presuming you level Sano up to at least a 10% bonus), and another close to 600,000 (at rank 20) to get through the engineering path spts I've heard about (80 mithril, 100platinum, 120 gold).

I have been playing just over 20 months. I'm level 760. I believe I have about half of that energy total left to spend. Have brought my leveling time down from a max of 35 hours to 18hours now. Of course, my TSI is 9.97 and my LSI 8.6, so that influences this a lot.

However, leveling time is truly unsustainable: xp/energy ratios have been dropping significantly, and it won't be long before I'll have to assume less than 1.4xp/en. Nevertheless, keep in mind low xp/energy ratios eventually affect everyone's leveling time. If my leveling time increases to 72 hours, I'd hate to see what that does to other players.

I've gone on four energy refill binges, two using FPs I got free over 6 month time frames, and the last two based on promopack FPs. It was getting very hard for me to refill, but then I started chasing engineering medals, and now my goal is to get 1 refill covering the remainder of a level spent finalizing an engineering medal (or, equivalently, at least the capacity to pull an engineering mithril a day utilizing a single refill). Basically, I'm trying to figure out how to utilize the promo fps. Keep in mind I have gotten enough xp from 600 stamina hits to pull 3, 4, and 5 levels from a single energy refill.


Sustainability is not an issue for me anymore. I don't care - if I get 4 years of gameplay out of this strategy before I run out of good spt sources, that's pretty darn good. While I don't know where the game will be in two years, my guess is there will be more things to spend energy on. I enjoy this way of playing, and was fortunate to pick the game up at the ideal time for it:

*Runes. Archives. They are like PEDs for the powerleveler.
*There are good hunting generals; even 514 pts in attack begins to look inefficient from a purely monster hunting standpoint. I have no interest in rats. I am pretty sure I can hit everything else.
*Defense is an issue. I'm remaining patient on this: I'll tackle the hunter/engineer paths while I wait for some kind of solution (def vs Monsters general?). I can battle through Baal currently. I know I can get enough defense for Svarog just utilizing some tinkerer gear. I think I get to Lothorewyn. Beyond that is so many, many engineering medals down the road that there is no reason for me even to be concerned at the moment. Engineering will drag the time out, as I won't be able to refill for even half of those medals, I suspect.

Is it actually sustainable? I don't know - leveling once every 6 days is sustainable, but you aren't really making progress with respect to anything other than level, and that really doesn't help you in anything except arenas. So define sustainable: even 5 sps a level in stamina/energy can keep the fast leveling build under 3 days almost indefinitely while waiting for new sources. And lots of energy and stamina helps utilize new game features (hunter path, engineer path, dungeon. Also, it is easier to build runes with lots of stamina and energy.)

Finally, a personal opinion: high spenders need something to spend on. There are finitely many chests/generals, etc. Many shinies cost lots stamina and energy so they cannot be gotten immediately - think how much damage was done to rats for folks to actually get the legendaries already! That's a lot of stamina when damage rises logarithmically. By maximizing my free/energy stamina, my plan has always been giving myself the opportunity to make use of new features on a low budget - Promos are perfect for me: I support the game, but clearly am "compensated" for doing so.

Edit: Note. The role of a high LSI player in the long run is support: engineer path, hunter path, guardian path for cannons, etc. I cannot, on my own, be competitive in PvP things. But the remaining sps I have there (Lvl 17 earl, lvl 5 festival, level 8 war) are inefficient anyways. My goal is to be able to assist others in these endeavors, and I can do so best when I'm burning through essence etc. as quickly as I can.

Cerbykins
09-25-2013, 04:41 PM
"Sustainable" is entirely down to dev mercy. I assume, perhaps unwisely, that the devs will keep laying down SPs to be gained - this is not necessarily true, especially if they ever get the idea that only the spenders are really left. In such a scenario, you get 5 SP a level and 1 SP a day....everything else you are gonna pay through the nose for. :eek:

That's a somewhat paranoid outlook, but consider the following - Cefka still rules as top XP return quest, 17 realms and many sub-splits like Atlantis and the dungeon later. Monster assists (especially XP) were wiped and are missed - farming has been repeat-nerfed - dragons are the only high-xp monster, and we've since seen HoD which introduced the sub-1 xp return quest (although I've not personally seen it). Then you've got the loss of EG, something NOT compensated for by Sano's new high-level powers.

On the upside, the devs have thrown out quite a few bonus SPs through other means (conquest especially) but the core of the game has been hardening a long, long time now. Unless you're a new account, the days of getting a bunch of free stuff because you exist and signed up are long, long gone. From a money-making angle, there is always the risk the devs will just sever the bulk of the easy perks and not release any more freebies (or even content you have to work at to get the loot). From a dev vs gamer standpoint, games generally nerf aggressively over time and if something looks too good to be true....it probably is. I saw the XP assist nerf coming far in advance, although I expected it to be the dragons getting the nerf instead (I killed a lot of them at the time). Retrospectively, the XP assist nerf was far more brutal. :eek:

It's all fun and games until you're no longer the market being courted. :p

A bit rambly, but the point is - don't take anything for granted. In the current climate, I would not be shocked at more across-the-board nerfs, to be replaced by other shinier but in practicality inferior newer features that are more 'relevant'. It only takes one nerf in the wrong place, and -ANYONE- can be battered out of it all.

Defyeler
09-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Or you can be like me and add to Stam, Energy, Attack, and Defense forever. The only concern I have for my build is keeping my BSI, all extra SP go into Energy and Stamina.. forever. The refilling thresholds are only good if you are a constant refiller, or FP buyer for refilling. If you don't refill that often, going over the 2k/1k threshold is more viable than staying at 2k/1k.

A2theJ
09-25-2013, 05:58 PM
Personally I don't see why anyone would max out stamina before energy. It's counterproductive since you'll get much fewer SPs per level. If you max energy first and then start on Stamina you'll get a ton more SPs per level through questing and therefore end up maxing out both energy and stamina sooner than if you started with stamina first. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mean sooner as in how many months, but sooner as in at what level you get both maxed. Just a wild guess but I would assume a good 50 levels sooner if you max out energy first. This matters if you're at all interested in Guild battles since you don't want to be at too high a level with a very low BSI. The earlier you can start adding to atk/def the better. My SPs per level is at 12.19 at level 451. If I maxed stamina first I would be at a much higher level and my average SPs per level would be much lower as well which is not good if you have any interest in Guild battles. Even if you don't have any interest in Guild battles I would still suggest maxing energy first because you might change your mind about Guild battles later on and if you do it will be too late. Once you go the stamina first route there's no going back. It's pretty much irreversible. It will take you over a year if not years to change your stats so that they're respectable for guild battles. Having lower amounts of energy also makes it harder to change your build since you're not getting the extra SPs per level from quests.

Lytane
09-29-2013, 05:13 AM
For me I find that having more energy is beneficial. Just look at the recent dungeons, a lot of energy was needed to win the stat points. I am more of a hybrid leveling every 3 days with 2 points to e, 2 to a, and 1 to def while I pray for e. Doing it this way keeps my leveling time consistent while still giving me enough stats to at least hold my own.

Lyra87
10-02-2013, 07:43 PM
Having recently passed over level 1200 it takes me two refills to reach the next level. Yesterday I managed to level up on only one energy refill after running off my daily regeneration energy/stamina. It looks like I will come up a few hundred xp short today though.

You can still attain the highest ranks of PVP with this type of build and all of the sp's that come along with it.

At my current rate of quest completion it will be just under ten months before I run out of quests to complete. I should scale back to one level per day to extend it even further. Hopefully some new lands will come out by then. It is probably inevitable that I will eventually run out of quests to complete at some point. At which time I can start fp farming, do more excavation quests and spam the Cefka quest to sort of balance out the poor return on excavations. Picking up Hyacinth by this point would be beneficial.

I add all my sp's to energy and defense. My daily blessing goes to defense. I'm favoring defense more than attack at this point. I can always do a general alliance when I need more attack. Presently, I have Sahar and Vancy and will buy Sorkan at some point. It will be quite awhile before I have all of the tinkerer equipment.

A few have noted that they have quickly come up against monster thresholds. I'm working on some of the older content at the moment. The legendary alchemy's and item archives you need multiple items of each. Having the latest pieces of equipment really don't improve my character all that much.

VanDavian
10-07-2013, 02:04 PM
I started in 09 as a PvP, then gradually turned to Hybrid as bigger monsters came out, and now I am a power leveler. It took 4 years.... My lvl 33 Sorkan gives me + 1,112 monster attack and with my leveling speed, I can dish out a lot of dmg. I do not regret sacrificing my BSI, because at any time I can turn around and dump 30-40 SP's into attack and defense per day. I'd say that in time, my BSI would return quick enough. So from my experience, it is easier to be power leveler and then go hybrid or PvP. For a PvP to turn around and pursue hybrid and power leveler builds will take a lot longer. That is the advantage I see.

By the time I'm finished rebuilding my BSI, I'll be miles ahead of all my devout PvP buddies in terms of defense and attack. So yeah...it's not that bad to be power leveler. And I do not agree with other players who say it is hard to catch up in PvP.

wraith
10-07-2013, 03:00 PM
I started in 09 as a PvP, then gradually turned to Hybrid as bigger monsters came out, and now I am a power leveler. It took 4 years.... My lvl 33 Sorkan gives me + 1,112 monster attack and with my leveling speed, I can dish out a lot of dmg. I do not regret sacrificing my BSI, because at any time I can turn around and dump 30-40 SP's into attack and defense per day. I'd say that in time, my BSI would return quick enough. So from my experience, it is easier to be power leveler and then go hybrid or PvP. For a PvP to turn around and pursue hybrid and power leveler builds will take a lot longer. That is the advantage I see.
I can't agree more. In addition, a build with large pool of stamina and energy is also much better equipped to consume fresh game contents and adapt to new game mechanisms.


By the time I'm finished rebuilding my BSI, I'll be miles ahead of all my devout PvP buddies in terms of defense and attack. So yeah...it's not that bad to be power leveler. And I do not agree with other players who say it is hard to catch up in PvP.
This statement, however, makes me curious. As a fellow 09'er, I would be closing in on 7k combined (inclusive runes+archives) by end of year and gaining a further ~900 per year. How long more it would take you to catch up and be miles ahead of me?

VanDavian
10-08-2013, 12:58 PM
I can't agree more. In addition, a build with large pool of stamina and energy is also much better equipped to consume fresh game contents and adapt to new game mechanisms.



That is exactly the point I was trying to make, but with better wording.



This statement, however, makes me curious. As a fellow 09'er, I would be closing in on 7k combined (inclusive runes+archives) by end of year and gaining a further ~900 per year. How long more it would take you to catch up and be miles ahead of me?

Well lets see... I'm sure I could add 1,800 SP's a year, at least. I have added over 1,200 these last 9 months, spread over energy and health. With the attack/def I have now, which is a little less than half yours, I might be able to catch up in...2 years or more, if I start unlocking hunter path SP's. As opposed to the 4 years it took me to revive a decent lvling speed. After that, it depends on what you consider miles ahead. I would consider miles ahead in terms of SP's, not BSI. Because, I would need to add a lot of attack and defense in order to counter the amount of energy/stam stores I have and get a BSI of say...9. So in terms of just SP, I would consider miles a head as being an extra 1,000 attack/defense over yours (being conservative), which all together would take me about 3 years to be 'miles ahead'....considering that my lvling rate will have slowed down. Eventually, the diff between me and a PvP who stayed PvP, would be that my BSI is worth more SP's (because I would need more SP's into attack/defense in order to have the same BSI as any PvP)...and I will still have a bunch of energy/stam.

Anyway, feel free to critique that. I am by no means all knowing ;)

Major
10-09-2013, 01:04 AM
Well lets see... I'm sure I could add 1,800 SP's a year, at least.

How? SP's are limited.

Once you have collected SP's from the following,
- Quests
- Achievements / festivals
- Conquest path

THEN you are limited to praying. Praying isn't going to get you 1,800 in SP allocation a year, not even half. You might get 521 (52*4+313 from praying) per year.

VanDavian
10-09-2013, 08:21 AM
How? SP's are limited.

Once you have collected SP's from the following,
- Quests
- Achievements / festivals
- Conquest path

THEN you are limited to praying. Praying isn't going to get you 1,800 in SP allocation a year, not even half. You might get 521 (52*4+313 from praying) per year.

With my level up speed, and FP farming. It works ;)

killmory
10-09-2013, 10:55 AM
ive added ~3300 sp in the past 12 months, and this was going from a lvl 500 with 600e, 600stam, to 2k e 1k s and added some to A/D

gaining sp can be easy with abit of spending. and now i can level once every couple of days instead of once a week.

VanDavian
10-09-2013, 12:20 PM
ive added ~3300 sp in the past 12 months, and this was going from a lvl 500 with 600e, 600stam, to 2k e 1k s and added some to A/D

gaining sp can be easy with abit of spending. and now i can level once every couple of days instead of once a week.

Yep, I can believe that. I was similar.