Guild Conquest Question

[ice9]

I just started a thread in GD!!!:eek:

Anyways, here goes.

I'm trying to figure out why someone would mage splash in GC. Why? You aren't farming Polies and Confuses for achievement SP. Your whopping -100 health to the gate from 10 tokens isnt helping to take the gate, so why? If you aren't farming mage achievements, why not switch to Warrior or Rogue and then WW or try for Evades on normal hits? I just don't understand. Is it because all mages made a pact to make it extremely difficult for Rogues to get Backstabs? I need answers NAO!:mad:

It's getting to the point where Rogues have to pray for a brand new gate to pop up to even try and get Backstabs. Mages, y u make our lives miserable?:mad:

Isortamadbro!:mad:

[larsonm]

+1, +1 and then +1 again Ice.

[ice9]

anybody who posts about Zurran+Alex bombing will awaken my nerdrage!!!:mad:

*glares at Hane*:mad:

[Cerbykins]

anybody who posts about Zurran+Alex bombing will awaken my nerdrage!!!

*glares at Hane*:mad:

He can't do that right now. :D :p (I'm gonna be made to pay for that. :D )

[MichaelSeth]

Because when the gate is large mages have the best damage/token
ratio?

Because mages naturally hate rogues as the sneaky little buggers they
are and will take any opportunity to screw up their backstabbing while
laughing all the way to multiple poly/confuse achievements?

[ChocoboKnight91]

Stop hating on meh! I was born a mage and can't help it!! *runs away crying*

Seriously though, mage splash gives best damage overall maybe? I play rogue for the evades though :D

[Elandal]

A fully equipped mage does 500 splash damage total on a full gate (yes, the main target that was hit takes splash too). With just Alexandria it's 350. A gate of just 10, with Alexandria, gets hit for 140 splash, which would be equal to Rogue with Deshara. Fiddle a bit with rogue using backstab and poison, and the breakeven is at maybe 18 person in a gate with Alexandria.

However, it'd be best to have rogues first apply poisons, and then start hitting. Aethyx-poison and backstab will give high enough damage yield for the token to be acceptable.

Sadly, warrior gets none of his damage boosts from skills, so is reduced to hitting poisons with whirlwind - thus doing more damage than rogue hitting same poison would..

Obviously all this assumes there's some amount of coordination, tactics, skill, or whatever involved. As Conquest battles are comparable to public monsters, there probably won't be much, with most people just farming some achievements or doing whatever they do.

[ice9]

A fully equipped mage does 500 splash damage total on a full gate (yes, the main target that was hit takes splash too). With just Alexandria it's 350. A gate of just 10, with Alexandria, gets hit for 140 splash, which would be equal to Rogue with Deshara. Fiddle a bit with rogue using backstab and poison, and the breakeven is at maybe 18 person in a gate with Alexandria.

However, it'd be best to have rogues first apply poisons, and then start hitting. Aethyx-poison and backstab will give high enough damage yield for the token to be acceptable.

Sadly, warrior gets none of his damage boosts from skills, so is reduced to hitting poisons with whirlwind - thus doing more damage than rogue hitting same poison would..

Obviously all this assumes there's some amount of coordination, tactics, skill, or whatever involved. As Conquest battles are comparable to public monsters, there probably won't be much, with most people just farming some achievements or doing whatever they do.
I agree. Most people treat it that way. They either farm achievements or just hit for the sake of burning tokens. There's no real strategy established yet. With hits depending upon individual refill timers or rebuys, as of now, I think it would be hard to coordinate any sort of guild strategy unless you designated a guild time to come together to run focus fire raids on a gate with officers calling the shots.

Until then, I'll have to go with this:

I sense a plot to sabotage the Rogues in CA.

http://www.fantascienza.com/magazine/imgbank/CINEMA/mace_windu.jpg

[Cerbykins]

I agree. Most people treat it that way. They either farm achievements or just hit for the sake of burning tokens. There's no real strategy established yet.

Hey, nabbing SP IS a real strategy. :p
Most the lands that pop up are invalid targets for some reason or another anyway. Serious attempts are co-ordinated on the fly, by whoever happens to be on at the time.

[lfcfrom1970]

Cynics reply? Alt from the guild does it to stop backstab :p

[Padaxan]

Some new Rogue stuff in the works, at least from what I've heard. I agree, it's pretty difficult to effectively do fun stuff as a rogue, short of just dumping tokens for raw damage.

[ChocoboKnight91]

This thread reminded me I have tokens! *equips mage and runs to fresh land*

HA! Ice moves too slowly :p

[Elandal]

In guild battles, rogues can be fun to play. Then again, in guild battles there is coordination and some effort is made to get most out of all classes. The fun is not so much in playing specific class but playing together with guildies, so a rogue is not simply dumping tokens for damage but rather spreading green goo and taking down annoying high health spots not covered by warriors.

I have considered reasons for the mage splashes in conquest battles, but I still prefer to chalk it up to ignorance rather than invoke malicious alt-strategies.

[Str8up-FUBAR]

Not sure if you all noticed or not , But just as we do not get defensive victories for the tons of poly and confuse we bounce in conquest, Magi do not get offensive wins when casting Poly or confuse. If your farming SP in conquest being A mage kind of sucks .. with warrior, using whirlwind, you will be earning Sp from two slots with every hit, and a rogue will be doing the same with evade though it will not happen with every hit. Poly and confuse does not bring down the action count against the guild either. So it would seem a die hard mage would only get gratification splashing around.

[zserg]

They do it because they're pricks.

[YellingCat]

Aren't we getting prickly tonight.

[zserg]

Aren't we getting prickly tonight.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, now you'll be banned for saying the word that shall not be said :cough: ***** :cough:

[YellingCat]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, now you'll be banned for saying the word that shall not be said :cough: prick :cough:

I typed a totally innocent adjective which unfortunately happens to be overused by certain elements tonight.

[ChocoboKnight91]

I typed a totally innocent adjective which unfortunately happens to be overused by certain elements tonight.

I did the same and am fine (at least on the post that included the adjective).

Oh and Ice.. I decided to stay rogue and not sabotage your backstabbing efforts :)

[ice9]

Not sure if you all noticed or not , But just as we do not get defensive victories for the tons of poly and confuse we bounce in conquest, Magi do not get offensive wins when casting Poly or confuse. If your farming SP in conquest being A mage kind of sucks .. with warrior, using whirlwind, you will be earning Sp from two slots with every hit, and a rogue will be doing the same with evade though it will not happen with every hit. Poly and confuse does not bring down the action count against the guild either. So it would seem a die hard mage would only get gratification splashing around.

My point was if you arent Poly or Confuse spamming, why Mage splash. Switch to Warrior or Rogue to Normal hit if you are worried about Offensive Wins achieve. The Rogues in your guild will thank you.


Considering the other class achievements, I did find it odd that the devs chose Evade and Backstab for the Rogue Class. I mean, with Poly, Confuse, Heal, etc, at least you know that if you hit you get a count towards your Achievement. Backstab is like finding a needle in a haystack, and Evade is like gambling with dice. You can find a WW target and know 10 WWs are going in the bank. The same can't be said for Evade. So:


@Padowan(Padaxan,hey, all you chicks have those mushy nicknames for him:mad:) Y devs no make Poison an Achievement instead of Backstab?:mad:

[Caidi]

Hey, nabbing SP IS a real strategy.

No, nabbing SP at the expense of your guildmates is not a strategy, it's just selfish playing. Finding a way to get the same SP while working in harmony with your guild and its goals would be strategy.

Magi do not get offensive wins when casting Poly or confuse.

Switch to a class other than mage when you are farming offensive victories.

They do it because they're pricks.

I was going to say that they probably don't even think about what they're doing or how it impacts others... but zergy is so eloquent. :D

[zserg]

I use warrior's whirlwind for conquest. only warrior skill i have.

[Cerbykins]

No, nabbing SP at the expense of your guildmates is not a strategy, it's just selfish playing. Finding a way to get the same SP while working in harmony with your guild and its goals would be strategy.

In battle or festy battle? Sure. While the guild is trying to co-ordinate an attack? Sure. I'm not spending 30 minutes finding an appropriate target, and then trying to tubthump on my guild wall to get them to hit it, though.

If the SP go back into fighting players and Conquest monsters, the guild is hardly losing out.

[ice9]

This thread reminded me I have tokens! *equips mage and runs to fresh land*

HA! Ice moves too slowly :p
Maybe I need to teleport to OT and cast a new Ice spell on joo.:mad:

[ChocoboKnight91]

Maybe I need to teleport to OT and cast a new Ice spell on joo.:mad:

Bring it on! :cool:

[smokeytripod]

Aren't we getting prickly tonight.

we all know only i can be prickly :mad:

[ice9]

2 1/2 hrs into GB and I have 2 Evades so far!
WTF, they nerf that too?
Devs, y u hate me?:mad:

[Iswald]

There's no real strategy established yet. With hits depending upon individual refill timers or rebuys, as of now, I think it would be hard to coordinate any sort of guild strategy unless you designated a guild time

There are definitely guilds coordinating attacks. Undoubtedly, they have worked out some kind of strategy that works for them.