Warlock and Ranger.

[The Tigress]

Two questions:

Why is the max level only 3?

When will we be able to use them in Guild battles and monsters?

[pull lead]

Ive been using Ranger in GBs for like 3 months.

[Bristolen]

no idea.

warlock and ranger are used in some monsters and not in others. kromash, gehenna, ambrosia; etc have them. old monsters like azriel and bahamut dont have warlock and ranger :p

you get to unlock ranger on monsters when you get your warrior and rogue classes high enough. you unlock warlock class when your cleric and mage classes get high enough. ;)

guild battles - been suggested 100 times, hasnt happened yet ;)

[richunder]

guild battles - been suggested 100 times, hasnt happened yet ;)

Don't know why...it's another cash making machine...3 straight monthlies dedicated to Ranger then 3 straight for warlock....new chest with Ranger/Warlock generals and abilities. New Alpha Alpha Supreme Being Monster where having a Warlock/Monthly general gives you 25% more damage...with an alchemy item with 76/73 att/def stats that will require a mere 200 FP refills to get all pieces....c'mon...hurry up Devs :rolleyes::D

[The Tigress]

no idea.

warlock and ranger are used in some monsters and not in others. kromash, gehenna, ambrosia; etc have them. old monsters like azriel and bahamut dont have warlock and ranger :p

you get to unlock ranger on monsters when you get your warrior and rogue classes high enough. you unlock warlock class when your cleric and mage classes get high enough. ;)

guild battles - been suggested 100 times, hasnt happened yet ;)

Already got Cleric, Mage, Rogue and Warrior at level 5, now got Warlock and Ranger at level 3........

COME ON DEVS! Give us the Warlock and Ranger in Guild battles and monsters!

[The Tigress]

Ive been using Ranger in GBs for like 3 months.

How do you manage that?

[Nightelf]

Warlock and Ranger will never level to 5 because it is another storyline/game dead end [i.e. - Devs have ADHD and forgot about it]. Previous "dead ends" include, but are not limited to -
1 - Quest Crystal drops [what were they supposed to be for anyway?]
2 - new quest map layout [ they made it to Earth 1 and "hey look, a squirrel"]
3 - new Demi Quests and the rest of the Demigod Divine Items
4 - CA Crusaders....... 'nuff said
5 - something [ANYTHING!!] besides Obsidian equipment to complete quests
{i only have 75 swords and they cost $17,000,000,000 EACH! talk about
a ripoff}
6 - Guild QUESTS - ?????? nothing on that? never gonna even explain it?
7 - Generals for purchase with GOLD........... gave up on that too i guess, no
real $$ in it.
8 - a new Guild Monster [ or at least 1 that actually drops legendary loot
BESIDES &^%$*$ing Flame Invokers!!!
9 - Any new lands to buy? no? ok....
10 - Dwarven miners find a damn Shadow cat trap already so i can Finally
find out what that shiney thing is!!....
11 - there are many more, but now im too disgusted to continue. feel free to add to the list

[Strider the Rogue]

the reason for there's no ranger or warlock in GB is simple... they would be too overpowered!

Heck no need for ranger, just put warlock in, and I'll bet everyone will be warlock... then in the end, there would be no need for other classes.

PS: this thread belongs in the suggestion sub-forum

[Thanos]

5 - something [ANYTHING!!] besides Obsidian equipment to complete quests
{i only have 75 swords and they cost $17,000,000,000 EACH! talk about
a ripoff}


When you have trillions, it's not that much :)

[KarmicBeing]

the reason for there's no ranger or warlock in GB is simple... they would be too overpowered!

Heck no need for ranger, just put warlock in, and I'll bet everyone will be warlock... then in the end, there would be no need for other classes.



I'd like to see Warlock/Ranger too, but as Strider mentioned, they probably would be too overpowered...
UNLESS the Devs made Warlock/Ranger really hard to get (say 10 000 CC to unlock class). People would have a long-term goal to achieve. Then it would be something like Festival Duels :p
But their classes should be something more than Warlock = Cleric's splash heal + Mage's splash damage. Ideas?

[solkyro]

I'd like to see Warlock/Ranger too, but as Strider mentioned, they probably would be too overpowered...
UNLESS the Devs made Warlock/Ranger really hard to get (say 10 000 CC to unlock class). People would have a long-term goal to achieve. Then it would be something like Festival Duels :p
But their classes should be something more than Warlock = Cleric's splash heal + Mage's splash damage. Ideas?

that's the first suggestion for warlock and rangers for gb. many shot it down for reasons of game redundancy and overpowering ability

[The Tigress]

I'd like to see Warlock/Ranger too, but as Strider mentioned, they probably would be too overpowered...
UNLESS the Devs made Warlock/Ranger really hard to get (say 10 000 CC to unlock class). People would have a long-term goal to achieve. Then it would be something like Festival Duels :p
But their classes should be something more than Warlock = Cleric's splash heal + Mage's splash damage. Ideas?

What if, like me, you already have both?

hmmmm.... Warlock...... not getting the Cleric splash when using Poly? and/or not getting Mage splash when using direct Heal? Would that work?

[KarmicBeing]

What if, like me, you already have both?

hmmmm.... Warlock...... not getting the Cleric splash when using Poly? and/or not getting Mage splash when using direct Heal? Would that work?

I'm thinking more along the lines of TOTALLY new powers.
*One way would be to make Warlock a "non-splashy" class with direct skills.

Hex - empowered Polymorph that stays on X turns

Cure - (empowered Dispel) that would
a) Remove ALL debuffs from player; OR
b) Remove a defuff, plus place a Cure marker on the target, preventing the next Debuff that would be placed on that player; OR
c) remove ALL Debuffs and Heal

Curse - places a Debuff on a player, reducing that player's damage by X. Removed by Dispel/death.

Ranger:

Thorn Armor - (Dispels upon death like Resurrection) whenever the Armored person is attacked,
a) the attacker gets extra X damage
b) the attacker gets extra X damage, plus Y damage is prevented to the attacked player

etc, etc... these possible skills could be endlessly tweaked to make them "non-game breakers". Warlock/Ranger should, however, be more powerful in comparison to the 4 main classes (especially when the 10 000 CC unlocking fee is implemented)...

Discuss, Bash, Improve!

[cosmicfriend]

Two questions:

Why is the max level only 3?
Because up to lvl 3 you get extra attack on mosters, and lvls 4 and 5 give extra slots for GB. since they are not GB material (yet) they don't need lvl 4 or 5.




When will we be able to use them in Guild battles and monsters?

I think (and hope)we won't be able to use them in guild.


as a sidenote: I hope they will not add new classes to find mosters. The current monsters give really crappy reward in terms of dmg for use of energy, and I think that's a trend they are not going to let go.

[Strider the Rogue]

I'd like to see Warlock/Ranger too, but as Strider mentioned, they probably would be too overpowered...
UNLESS the Devs made Warlock/Ranger really hard to get (say 10 000 CC to unlock class). People would have a long-term goal to achieve. Then it would be something like Festival Duels :p
But their classes should be something more than Warlock = Cleric's splash heal + Mage's splash damage. Ideas?

I've put an idea for this before (lost the thread)

My 1st idea is not making Warlock/Ranger as a new class, but rather as an equipable ability.
So Warlock is an ability that only clerics or mages can equip.
If a cleric equip [warlock] ability he/she can equip ONE of the mage ability that he/she owns
and so on and so on

My 2nd idea also not making warlock/ranger as new class, but rather as a guild shop group (something like universal group in the guild shop that contains [resistance] that can be used by all 4 class).
So in this idea there will be equipale ability that can be used by two class.
For example:
Life Leech - Warlock ability (this means ONLY mages and cleric that can use this ability)

[wilbur07]

warlock = splash heal your tower OR splash damage enemy tower, chosen when you choose warlock as a class. ability to equip any cleric/mage/warlock abilities.

ranger = extra damage on one target OR free resistance I ability that stacks with equipped resistance, chosen when you choose ranger as your class. ability to equip any rogue/warrior/ranger abilities.

[Strider the Rogue]

warlock = splash heal your tower OR splash damage enemy tower, chosen when you choose warlock as a class. ability to equip any cleric/mage/warlock abilities.

ranger = extra damage on one target OR free resistance I ability that stacks with equipped resistance, chosen when you choose ranger as your class. ability to equip any rogue/warrior/ranger abilities.

When there's a hybrid class, it would be too overpowering.
this idea will make ranger the most dreaded class; whirlwind comboed with poison and confidence + evade? I think this would be the GB breaker.

[KarmicBeing]

warlock = splash heal your tower OR splash damage enemy tower, chosen when you choose warlock as a class. ability to equip any cleric/mage/warlock abilities.

ranger = extra damage on one target OR free resistance I ability that stacks with equipped resistance, chosen when you choose ranger as your class. ability to equip any rogue/warrior/ranger abilities.

I like that. It keeps things simple. It also encourages people to get Guild Shop abilities not directly related to their chosen class.

[Strider the Rogue]

I like that. It keeps things simple. It also encourages people to get Guild Shop abilities not directly related to their chosen class.

with Wilbur's setup 95% of GB player will go ranger.

This is what they'll choose:
Ranger with +100 extra damage as their base ability.
This then will be comboed with whirlwind + poison + confidence
And as for devensive ability they'll use evade.

For me, this is a bad setup

[KarmicBeing]

with Wilbur's setup 95% of GB player will go ranger.

This is what they'll choose:
Ranger with +100 extra damage as their base ability.
This then will be comboed with whirlwind + poison + confidence
And as for devensive ability they'll use evade.

For me, this is a bad setup

Good point. Could we avoid that by limiting the number of skills one could use?

[Strider the Rogue]

Good point. Could we avoid that by limiting the number of skills one could use?

idea number 1

I've put an idea for this before (lost the thread)

My 1st idea is not making Warlock/Ranger as a new class, but rather as an equipable ability.
So Warlock is an ability that only clerics or mages can equip.
If a cleric equip [warlock] ability he/she can equip ONE of the mage ability that he/she owns
and so on and so on

My 2nd idea also not making warlock/ranger as new class, but rather as a guild shop group (something like universal group in the guild shop that contains [resistance] that can be used by all 4 class).
So in this idea there will be equipale ability that can be used by two class.
For example:
Life Leech - Warlock ability (this means ONLY mages and cleric that can use this ability)

[Iswald]

the reason for there's no ranger or warlock in GB is simple... they would be too overpowered!


It would be extremely easy to have warlock and ranger both added as balanced classes while maintaining the flavor of them as warrior/rogues and cleric/mages. Perhaps, you have a lack of experience in this area? Explore more gaming systems and you'll have a better idea of what is possible without inducing hysteric responses to such classes.

[Fenrir]

Who said they have to be overpowered classes? If they are a merge of two classes, the fuse result would be a watered down version of both the original classes.

Warrior: +10 Attack and +10 Defense.
Rogue: +100 Damage.
Mage: +10 Damage (Both defensive and offensive victory).
Cleric: +10 Health (Both defensive and offensive victory).

Ranger: +5 Attack and +5 Defense & +50 Damage. Can equip all Warrior and Rogue abilities, but all abilities cost 2 tokens (or not) instead of 1 and no double Activity Points for abilities used (if cost 2 tokens). Passive abilities have a reduction divided by 2 (Evade 25% /2 = 12.5%, etc). All abilities results are divided by 2. Regular duel still cost 1 token.

Warlock: +5 Damage (Both defensive and offensive victory) & +5 Health (Both defensive and offensive victory). All abilities cost 2 tokens (or not) instead of 1 and no double Activity Points for abilities used (if cost 2 tokens). Same as Ranger, all abilities results are divided by 2 (Heal +70-130 Health restored /2 = +35-70 Health restored, etc). Regular duel still cost 1 token.

Basically, make Ranger and Warlock the "Jack of all trades, master of none" style classes where the four original classes are the "master" classes. A Ranger will be less effective than their counterparts Warrior and Rogue while Warlock will be the less effective Mage and Cleric.

[Strider the Rogue]

It would be extremely easy to have warlock and ranger both added as balanced classes while maintaining the flavor of them as warrior/rogues and cleric/mages. Perhaps, you have a lack of experience in this area? Explore more gaming systems and you'll have a better idea of what is possible without inducing hysteric responses to such classes.

well yes, have to admit I am NOT a game developer!
But you see how the Devs struggle to even balance 4 class? And you want to add 2 more class in the mix?

Who said they have to be overpowered classes? If they are a merge of two classes, the fuse result would be a watered down version of both the original classes.

Warrior: +10 Attack and +10 Defense.
Rogue: +100 Damage.
Mage: +10 Damage (Both defensive and offensive victory).
Cleric: +10 Health (Both defensive and offensive victory).

Ranger: +5 Attack and +5 Defense & +50 Damage. Can equip all Warrior and Rogue abilities, but all abilities cost 2 tokens (or not) instead of 1 and no double Activity Points for abilities used (if cost 2 tokens). Passive abilities have a reduction divided by 2 (Evade 25% /2 = 12.5%, etc). All abilities results are divided by 2. Regular duel still cost 1 token.

Warlock: +5 Damage (Both defensive and offensive victory) & +5 Health (Both defensive and offensive victory). All abilities cost 2 tokens (or not) instead of 1 and no double Activity Points for abilities used (if cost 2 tokens). Same as Ranger, all abilities results are divided by 2 (Heal +70-130 Health restored /2 = +35-70 Health restored, etc). Regular duel still cost 1 token.

Basically, make Ranger and Warlock the "Jack of all trades, master of none" style classes where the four original classes are the "master" classes. A Ranger will be less effective than their counterparts Warrior and Rogue while Warlock will be the less effective Mage and Cleric.

In this setup, 90% of players will go Warlock... not for the ability to equip 2 class ability, but for the basic ability of +5 splash damage/+5 splash heal. While the rest of the 7% will go cleric and the 3% will go the other classes.

In this setup, Warlock is the overpowered class, having the ability to do both splash heal and splash damage is overpowered, even though it's only half of the basic class.

If you look at it at one on one duel, Warlock in your setup might be kind of okay, not overpowered. But if you look at it in a 100 vs 100...
Imagine a tower where 20 of the members there are Warlock and the rest of the 5 is cleric... and tell me it's not more powerful than a tower full 25 clerics.

And people have complained about the cleric stack tactic... even there's a couple of threads in the suggestion forum to limit the number of clerics in a guild.

[czer]

Its not difficult to make "new" versions. Here is a quick example:

Warlock

Level 1 - Token regeneration time reduced by 20 seconds
Level 2 - Token regeneration time reduced by 40 seconds
Level 3 - Token regeneration time reduced by 1 minute

Skills

Protective Shield - Protected ally resists negative affects (poly/poison/confuse...) with 70% effectiveness. Disappears after protecting an ally 3 times.
Healthy Defense:When in healthy status in a Guild Battle, you heal +5 Health to all Allies in the same gate upon defensive victory.
Burn - Chest and guild coin skill

Chest Level 1: Enemy takes +2 damage offensively and defensively. No duration (must be dispelled to be removed).
Chest Level 2: Enemy takes +4 damage offensively and defensively. No duration (must be dispelled to be removed).
Buyable version: Enemy takes +6 damage offensively and defensively. No duration (must be dispelled to be removed).
Chest Level 3: Enemy takes +8 damage offensively and defensively. No duration (must be dispelled to be removed).

Polymorph - At a 20% boost to effective attack rather than 50%
Heal - At half strength


Ranger

Level 1 - 1% chance to do the maximum of actual damage and 10% of the target's current hp
Level 2 - 2% chance to do the maximum of actual damage and 10% of the target's current hp
Level 3 - 3% chance to do the maximum of actual damage and 10% of the target's current hp

Skills

Long Shot - On a loss: Take only the damage you would take on a win, receive 160BP, and do not trigger enemy special abilities (Mage splash, cleric splash, confidence) (Think of shooting a bow, when you miss nobody even notices, takes a token)
Powerful Blow - Takes 2 tokens, do double damage and increase the chance of triggering the class ability 10x
Turn Damage - Chest and guild coin skill

Chest Level 1: When attacked in guild battle, 5 damage done to you is deflected back on the attacker.
Chest Level 2: When attacked in guild battle, 10 damage done to you is deflected back on the attacker.
Buyable version: When attacked in guild battle, 15 damage done to you is deflected back on the attacker.
Chest Level 3: When attacked in guild battle, 20 damage done to you is deflected back on the attacker.

Whirlwind - 60% chance of splashing 60% damage to each neighbor of your target.
Poison - Target takes an additional 25 damage for the next 5 battles, offensive or defensive


(Existing generals have no effect on Polymorph/Heal/Whirlwind/Poison)
Another reasonable class ability/skill would be an increase in effective att/def.
Note that since the Warlock's splash heal only triggers on a defensive victory, they cannot revive a gate unless attacked.

[Strider the Rogue]

Its not difficult to make "new" versions.

Of course it's not difficult to make new classes, heck I think the Devs can make new classes with every equipable ability as their basic ability.

The question is... what for?

1. If it's a hybrid, it's overpowered by the fact they can use two classes ability.
2. If it's a new class with different set of basic skills and buyable skills... why not give them to the already existing classes?

[czer]

Of course it's not difficult to make new classes, heck I think the Devs can make new classes with every equipable ability as their basic ability.

The question is... what for?

1. If it's a hybrid, it's overpowered by the fact they can use two classes ability.
2. If it's a new class with different set of basic skills and buyable skills... why not give them to the already existing classes?

Considering that guilds seem to be a very active portion of the game which is helping to retain players, I would argue that anything that gives guild battles diversity is good.

1. I agree that a full hybrid would be far too overpowered. Limiting which skill are available could help to mitigate this factor though.
2. The benefit of giving new skill to new classes is to increase the diversity. We have already had points where various classes were over/underpowered. There will unfortunately never exist a perfect balance, but adding new roles helps to increase both the likely number of "good" classes and adds more strategies.

Having a class that is built to take out HP tanks, more effectively suicide, simply earn more coins, or survive longer adds new depth to building a good guild.

[Strider the Rogue]

Considering that guilds seem to be a very active portion of the game which is helping to retain players, I would argue that anything that gives guild battles diversity is good.

Agreed

1. I agree that a full hybrid would be far too overpowered. Limiting which skill are available could help to mitigate this factor though.

even partial or limited hybrid is overpowered as I've stated on my previous posts

2. The benefit of giving new skill to new classes is to increase the diversity. We have already had points where various classes were over/underpowered. There will unfortunately never exist a perfect balance, but adding new roles helps to increase both the likely number of "good" classes and adds more strategies.

There's six slot for each class, and as I recall there's 4 skills that is dedicated to each class and 2 universal abilities, also right now there's only 3 slots that are opened

So giving these "idea abilities" to already existing class will achieve the same degree of diversity. if there's (hopefully someday) like 20 abilities for each specific (existing) classes and openong all 6 slots, I really think that there will be more "class" build than today's 4 class.

[Fenrir]

well yes, have to admit I am NOT a game developer!
But you see how the Devs struggle to even balance 4 class? And you want to add 2 more class in the mix?



In this setup, 90% of players will go Warlock... not for the ability to equip 2 class ability, but for the basic ability of +5 splash damage/+5 splash heal. While the rest of the 7% will go cleric and the 3% will go the other classes.

In this setup, Warlock is the overpowered class, having the ability to do both splash heal and splash damage is overpowered, even though it's only half of the basic class.

If you look at it at one on one duel, Warlock in your setup might be kind of okay, not overpowered. But if you look at it in a 100 vs 100...
Imagine a tower where 20 of the members there are Warlock and the rest of the 5 is cleric... and tell me it's not more powerful than a tower full 25 clerics.

And people have complained about the cleric stack tactic... even there's a couple of threads in the suggestion forum to limit the number of clerics in a guild.

Touché, it could cost Warlock 2 tokens instead of 1 for duels and/or have 2 or 3 splash heal and damage at max. Can always be lowered down some more.

For adding more classes into Guild Battles, I don't see that happening anytime soon honestly.

[KarmicBeing]

The only thing I ACTUALLY want, if Warlock and Ranger were implemented, is that they wouldn't be "meh-classes".

Dear Devs, please don't just "throw something at us". Make it interesting (and useful!). Try putting yourself in a real player's position and ask "Would I be interested in this as a player?". This kind of approach works miracles...
I mean, Lacerate... srsly... :rolleyes:

[The Flirt]

It would be extremely easy to have warlock and ranger both added as balanced classes while maintaining the flavor of them as warrior/rogues and cleric/mages. Perhaps, you have a lack of experience in this area? Explore more gaming systems and you'll have a better idea of what is possible without inducing hysteric responses to such classes.

Bull****. Even some of the world best games can't balance things, Blizzard for example. This is because Balance is Opinion based, and someone always feels less powerful then others.

Token regeneration time reduced

That just determend what I'm playing. More BAP = More Coins = More gear. Farm coins, buy up gear, and then play what is needed (Not to mention the bonus damage you will get from extra tokens!)


Balance is really hard, it's not an easy thing at all. Players are creative, and will find ways to use abilities in ways you've never thought of, Trust me.

[czer]

That just determend what I'm playing. More BAP = More Coins = More gear. Farm coins, buy up gear, and then play what is needed (Not to mention the bonus damage you will get from extra tokens!)

Balance is really hard, it's not an easy thing at all. Players are creative, and will find ways to use abilities in ways you've never thought of, Trust me.

I agree that balance is essentially impossible, but I do not think that this is a terrible imbalance. Frankly a rogue or warrior would still do more damage than this class with 10 extra tokens over the course of a full battle. What it does absolutely give is more options which I think is a good thing. What additional classes add that extra skill cannot is different base abilities.

[The Flirt]

I agree that balance is essentially impossible, but I do not think that this is a terrible imbalance. Frankly a rogue or warrior would still do more damage than this class with 10 extra tokens over the course of a full battle. What it does absolutely give is more options which I think is a good thing. What additional classes add that extra skill cannot is different base abilities.

I understand your point.

However, I'd not like to see Hybrids, bbut rather new base classes. These, in my experiance of gaming, are not as imbalancing.

I'd look to classics like Dungeons and Dragons for other classes and what abilties they have, but we would have to be careful not to infringe on other already exsisting classes.


I'd love a "HOLY SMITE! IS the Character has over 5K Health, half it!" that would piss of alot of health freaks. It's becoming to common to see 4 to 5 people in a guidl with 10K health in a guild battle. They don't even need to be high level, just enough to soak up your coins -.-

[Fenrir]

Ranger: I couldn't come up with anything different for this class that is not already present, but having him get a small % chance to inflict a single bad status ailment while dealing some damage to the target. Poison Arrow, Confusion Arrow, etc...

Or for something totally different for Ranger class, having a Pierce ability skill that has a % chance to nullify Resistance and deal full damage, or an ability that gives a small % chance to land a critical hit on target player, or a Healthkiller ability to deal more damage to the High Health players. Or % chance of disabling random ability for x turns, etc...

Warlock: The basic idea for this one would be that you could cast damage dealing spells such as fire, thunderstorm, maelstrom, etc. Example, fire cause 300 damage for 2 tokens (but gives double activity points?) to a single target, thunderstorm targets 3 players and does 100 damage to each players, etc.

[rebeccan ness]

Why not just keep it simple and give rangers the ability to use both warrior and rogue abilities in guild battles. Also, warlocks the ability to use both cleric and mage abilities.