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Sengir
06-09-2010, 12:26 PM
I can't find the answers here on the forum, so I thought I'd just ask here a couple things.

1. What's the "optimal damage" to obtain a couple epics for the following monsters?
Keira (I've beaten her 27 times, and still miss the plate. I found that 100k is not enough to drop an epic anymore, and with 150k or so I get one... I usually don't do more than that because she dies before I can), Azriel (I have not much experience with her, I wondered how much dmg is enough for 2-3 epics/a legendary and how much is too much and not worth anymore), Alpha Bahamut (like Azriel), Ragnarok (need some frost bolts)

2. Do the class bonuses stack? Right now, I am a level 3 warrior and a level 2 cleric (almost 3), is it worth to "level up" rogue and mage for the bonus atk? I have 400 def so I heal for quite a lot, and warrior\cleric is my go-to class most of time, I was just wondering.

3. I have maxed out lands, AAs, Commanders Plates, Royal Seals and the new Ornate Axes are my lowest weapon in invasions... what to do with my money? Is buying Obsidian Armors\Swords worth it or should I just keep saving money until something else is released?

I think I had more questions, but I can't remember now. :S

Thanks in advance!

Kage Cow
06-09-2010, 12:33 PM
2. Do the class bonuses stack? Right now, I am a level 3 warrior and a level 2 cleric (almost 3), is it worth to "level up" rogue and mage for the bonus atk? I have 400 def so I heal for quite a lot, and warrior\cleric is my go-to class most of time, I was just wondering.

You only get the bonus when you select that class. To make it simple if you are a level 4 warrior, you gain the warrior bonus if you chose to be a warrior. Choosing cleric will not stack the warrior bonus.



3. I have maxed out lands, AAs, Commanders Plates, Royal Seals and the new Ornate Axes are my lowest weapon in invasions... what to do with my money? Is buying Obsidian Armors\Swords worth it or should I just keep saving money until something else is released?


I suggest you keep the gold. We never knew there would be ornate axes out but here they are now. After CB I am guessing that they will put up either armor or magic on the next tier. Imagine having those when you get there

Deriam
06-09-2010, 01:11 PM
considering you said maxed on royal seals you would be familiar with pvp, then save money for high king crown

Foehammer
06-09-2010, 03:18 PM
I can't find the answers here on the forum, so I thought I'd just ask here a couple things.

1. What's the "optimal damage" to obtain a couple epics for the following monsters? Keira (I've beaten her 27 times, and still miss the plate. I found that 100k is not enough to drop an epic anymore, and with 150k or so I get one... I usually don't do more than that because she dies before I can), Azriel (I have not much experience with her, I wondered how much dmg is enough for 2-3 epics/a legendary and how much is too much and not worth anymore), Alpha Bahamut (like Azriel), Ragnarok (need some frost bolts)

Good question. I am by no means an expert monster hunter. But a good rule of thumb seems to be 1.5 million for the world monsters (for one epic), and about 125%-150% of achievement for the smaller ones. But I'm quite sure they adjust the drop rates slightly everytime they update the game. Which is why I try to attack new monsters as much as possible in the first month, before they nerf them with a new CA update. For instance, before they created Medius, Genesis Swords and Frost Bolts seemed easier to get... but now its more difficult.

I'm not sure if anyone has the precise numbers, because all we can do is share our experiences.

Also, damage isn't the only factor. Completion Time and Damage Rank also play a role, but I don't have the numbers for that. I just know that monsters that die quickly drop more loot as a reward, and when I am toward the top of the pile I get more loot than at the bottom....

Firestorm
06-09-2010, 03:55 PM
1. What's the "optimal damage" to obtain a couple epics for the following monsters?
Keira (I've beaten her 27 times, and still miss the plate. I found that 100k is not enough to drop an epic anymore, and with 150k or so I get one... I usually don't do more than that because she dies before I can), Azriel (I have not much experience with her, I wondered how much dmg is enough for 2-3 epics/a legendary and how much is too much and not worth anymore), Alpha Bahamut (like Azriel), Ragnarok (need some frost bolts)


there is really not good answer to your questions.
everyone have their preferred "sweet spot".
if you like Raid, you can tag the battle with 1 stamina and hope to get a Favor Point.

so, if you have 100 stamina, it's like 100 lottery tickets.



2. Do the class bonuses stack? Right now, I am a level 3 warrior and a level 2 cleric (almost 3), is it worth to "level up" rogue and mage for the bonus atk? I have 400 def so I heal for quite a lot, and warrior\cleric is my go-to class most of time, I was just wondering.


well... those bonus are so little that it doesn't matter.
so what if you deal an extra 10 damage? Azriel have 600 million HP!



3. I have maxed out lands, AAs, Commanders Plates, Royal Seals and the new Ornate Axes are my lowest weapon in invasions... what to do with my money? Is buying Obsidian Armors\Swords worth it or should I just keep saving money until something else is released?


your equipment is mostly for show or bragging right only.
they don't really help in invasion.
no matter how many you had, another player with 501 army will top that with just a few SPs spend on attack.

501 x 1 Attack = 501 Attack.
a Royal Seal is 5/5, i.e. 8.5
so 1 point in Attack = 58 Royal Seals.
501 Royal Seals = 8.5 SPs in Attack.

is that a lot?

Foehammer
06-09-2010, 05:07 PM
your equipment is mostly for show or bragging right only.
they don't really help in invasion.
no matter how many you had, another player with 501 army will top that with just a few SPs spend on attack.

501 x 1 Attack = 501 Attack.
a Royal Seal is 5/5, i.e. 8.5
so 1 point in Attack = 58 Royal Seals.
501 Royal Seals = 8.5 SPs in Attack.

is that a lot?

Ummm... what??

Here's the Invasion Attack Formula....
((Attack+(Defense*2/3))*Army) + ((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army) + ((Item Attack Power + Item Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((Magic Attack Power + (Magic Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((General Attack Power + (General Defense Power * .7)) * Army) = Battle Power

Everything is multiplied by army size. So, if I have 501 Chronuses (60/60)... my 30060/30060 would be multiplied by 501, not to mention my magic, items, generals, etc. But my attack, even if it was 2,000, pales in comparison to an army of ENTS, let alone an army of better units....

Unless, of course, the Invasion formula we have is wrong. But I don't think so.

Foehammer
06-09-2010, 05:12 PM
well... those bonus are so little that it doesn't matter.
so what if you deal an extra 10 damage? Azriel have 600 million HP!

:D Has anyone verified how much difference the Rogue bonus actually does? But I think you're right.... Zarevok adds +20 Attack at Level 4, and I can't tell much of a difference between him and Strider.

Firestorm
06-10-2010, 05:23 AM
Ummm... what??

Here's the Invasion Attack Formula....
((Attack+(Defense*2/3))*Army) + ((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army) + ((Item Attack Power + Item Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((Magic Attack Power + (Magic Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((General Attack Power + (General Defense Power * .7)) * Army) = Battle Power

Everything is multiplied by army size. So, if I have 501 Chronuses (60/60)... my 30060/30060 would be multiplied by 501, not to mention my magic, items, generals, etc. But my attack, even if it was 2,000, pales in comparison to an army of ENTS, let alone an army of better units....

Unless, of course, the Invasion formula we have is wrong. But I don't think so.

((Attack+(Defense*2/3))*Army) + ((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army) + ((Item Attack Power + Item Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((Magic Attack Power + (Magic Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((General Attack Power + (General Defense Power * .7)) * Army) = Battle Power

check your brackets. i will rewrite the above for you to see more clearly.

((Attack+(Defense*2/3))*Army)
+
((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army)
+
((Item Attack Power + Item Defense Power * .7)) * Army) +
((Magic Attack Power + (Magic Defense Power * .7)) * Army)
+
((General Attack Power + (General Defense Power * .7)) * Army)
=
Battle Power

in your calculation, you multiplied your army twice.
each member in your army can bring 1 unit, 1 weapon, 1 equipment & 1 spell.
to bring 501 Chronoes to battle, you need an army of 501.

((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army)

here's how you should work it out:

1 Chronos 60/60 = 60 x (0.7 x 60) = 102
501 Chronoses = 102 x 501 = 51102

yes, it may seemed a lot but most people have at least 501 Phoenixes. so you need to look at the different.

diff[Phoenix 20/16 vs Chronos 60/60] = 40/46
40 + (0.7 x 46) = 72.2
72.2 x 501 = 36172.2 ~= 72.2 SP in attack.

equip have much lesser stats. so they are not really significant.

Azraelswrd
06-10-2010, 05:58 AM
#1) There is no magic number. Random is random. Do more to get more, not better.

#2) Cow's answer

#3) Save your money for something you need, or save it for the next lands as you level up (since the land max increases by 10 per level/10). Rampant consumerism is the downfall of us all!!!!!! FEED THE PIG!!!! SAVE!!! :D

Major
06-10-2010, 11:55 AM
I can't find the answers here on the forum, so I thought I'd just ask here a couple things.

1. What's the "optimal damage" to obtain a couple epics for the following monsters?
Keira (I've beaten her 27 times, and still miss the plate. I found that 100k is not enough to drop an epic anymore, and with 150k or so I get one... I usually don't do more than that because she dies before I can), Azriel (I have not much experience with her, I wondered how much dmg is enough for 2-3 epics/a legendary and how much is too much and not worth anymore), Alpha Bahamut (like Azriel), Ragnarok (need some frost bolts)

2. Do the class bonuses stack? Right now, I am a level 3 warrior and a level 2 cleric (almost 3), is it worth to "level up" rogue and mage for the bonus atk? I have 400 def so I heal for quite a lot, and warrior\cleric is my go-to class most of time, I was just wondering.

3. I have maxed out lands, AAs, Commanders Plates, Royal Seals and the new Ornate Axes are my lowest weapon in invasions... what to do with my money? Is buying Obsidian Armors\Swords worth it or should I just keep saving money until something else is released?

I think I had more questions, but I can't remember now. :S

Thanks in advance!

Re: Commander plates and the likes, you lose an extreme amount of money if you sell them. I spent 39 billion buying knights valours. Got less than 1 billion after selling them all. BUT I did save 2,500,000 (knights valour upkeep) a day after selling them. (going to take 15,200 days to recoup what i lost).

So if your upkeep is low, compared to income, keep them. If you want to raise your income, then reduce your upkeep by selling units/weapons you dont need.

Foehammer
06-10-2010, 04:49 PM
((Attack+(Defense*2/3))*Army) + ((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army) + ((Item Attack Power + Item Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((Magic Attack Power + (Magic Defense Power * .7)) * Army) + ((General Attack Power + (General Defense Power * .7)) * Army) = Battle Power

check your brackets. i will rewrite the above for you to see more clearly.

((Attack+(Defense*2/3))*Army)
+
((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army)
+
((Item Attack Power + Item Defense Power * .7)) * Army) +
((Magic Attack Power + (Magic Defense Power * .7)) * Army)
+
((General Attack Power + (General Defense Power * .7)) * Army)
=
Battle Power

in your calculation, you multiplied your army twice.
each member in your army can bring 1 unit, 1 weapon, 1 equipment & 1 spell.
to bring 501 Chronoes to battle, you need an army of 501.

((Soldier Attack Power + (Soldier Defense Power * .7 )) * Army)

here's how you should work it out:

1 Chronos 60/60 = 60 x (0.7 x 60) = 102
501 Chronoses = 102 x 501 = 51102

yes, it may seemed a lot but most people have at least 501 Phoenixes. so you need to look at the different.

diff[Phoenix 20/16 vs Chronos 60/60] = 40/46
40 + (0.7 x 46) = 72.2
72.2 x 501 = 36172.2 ~= 72.2 SP in attack.

equip have much lesser stats. so they are not really significant.

Got it. The formula on Wikia is flawed. You can only do a simple army multiplier if you have all of the same unit. The way I read it, [* Army] means [* 501] or whatever your army is. But it should really read something like:

[(Player Attack + Player Defense) * Army)] + (Sum Top Army Unit Attack) + (Sum Top Army Unit Defense) + (Sum Top Army Weapon Attack) + (Sum Top Army Weapon Defense) + (Sum Top Army Item Attack) + (Sum Top Army Item Defense) + (Sum Army Magic Attack) + (Sum Army Magic Defense)

And insert the 0.7 modifer for attack or defense based on which you're doing.