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Alper
06-06-2010, 12:35 AM
*edit by mod: use this topic for any war strategies/guides/how to play questions*

"War" enables many varieties of strategies. They depend on this points:

1) Attack & Defense Stats
2) Items
3) Generals

Your attack & defense stats are important because you can put yourself in the War Council, but your attack & defense doensīt matter for the Generals you put in.

Generals are important too, because they take the 6 other slots of the Council. Your chance of winning is increased with better generals.

Items are playing in my opinion the most important role beside your attack & defense stats. With better items you can compensate generals, who arenīt so good. With better items you can compensate low attack & defense too, see below.

Now, how could strategies look like? Every strategy has to increase your chance of reaching minimum 9points per duel. Why 9 points? in total you can earn 17, therefore 9 are enough to win a duel.

Here is one for Hybrid Builds against PvP builds:

Tower strategy for hybrid builds:

Assumptions:
1) You have a very good Item collection
2) You have low attack & defense stats

You sacrifice your Main Gate (5points) but win the Mage Tower (3points) and the Tower (3points).

If your attack & defense is low there is no reason to put yourself at the Main Gate. Why? Because you will loose anyway to someone who has a pvp build. Therefore you waste yourself. In my opinion its better to sacrifice the Main Gate and put yourself to the Mage Tower. Why the Mage Tower? It gives you 3 points and will be a win for sure. Besides you kill the secondary strong General of your opponent. Your best General should be at the Tower to increase your win chance and earn 3points again.

This way you gain 6 points, ergo 3points are left. You have to win 2 to 3 others fights. Which one lays in your hands. You can choice between West Rampart(2points), East Rampart(2points), Archer Wall(1point) and Armory(1point).

One opportunity is to put your secondary strongest generals in the position of East Rampart, your third strongest at Armory. Why? Because others put their strongest Generals to the positions of West Rampart and Archer Wall ;D If you win this two you have earend 9points in total - a success :)

With a good Item collection its a little like gambling too, which of you War Council members get which items, but its still doable.

Hope it helps and looking for other eventually better strategies of winning duels in WAR :)


Here is a little Item collection and where you can get them :) Keep in mind that an item is max used 3x, after that the next best 3x items are choosen.

WEAPON:
1x Zarevokīs Meat Cleaver 44/22 Arena Rank 5: Hero
3x Celestial Devotion 22/44 Emporium
3x Genesis Sword 20/30 Genesis
Alt: 1x Excalibur 25/12 Alchemy Epic Bosses
Alt: 1x Berserker Axe 20/13 Malekus 4500
Alt: 1x Blade of Vengeance 17/15 Azeron 3100
Alt: 3x Deliverence 16/16 Azriel
Alt: 3x Burning Blade 16/13 Bahamut
Alt: 3x Avenging Mace 16/13 Azriel

SHIELD:
1x Sword of Redemption 50/30 Azeron 4500
3x Purgatory 30/30 Azriel
3x Deathshield 24/24 Skaar
1x Juggernaut Shield 18/12 Malekus 5900

HELMET:
3x Helm of Dragon Power 30/30 Dragons Alchemy/Emporium
3x Volcanic Helm 32/14 Bahamut
1x Berserker Helm 12/10 Malekus 3100
Alt: 3x Kings Crown 11/11 Battle Rank 21: High King
Alt: 3x Celestial Helm 11/11 Azriel
Alt: 1x Tempest Helm 10/10 Ambrosia 5900

ARMOR:
3x Deathrune Hellplate 18/27 Skaar
3x Archangels Battlegear 26/14 Azriel
3x Hellforge Plate 25/12 Bahamut
Alt: 3x Zealot Robes 25/12 Azriel
Alt: 1x Swordsmans Plate 25/12 Arena Rank 2: Swordsman
Alt: 1x Lionheart Plate 10/25 Corvintheus 4500
Alt: 3x Holy Plate 18/20 Dark Legion Alchemy

AMULET:
3x Transcendence 46/36 Azriel
1x Moonfall Amulet 40/40 Aurora 4500
3x Soulless Pendant 25/25 Azriel
Alt: 3x Blood Flask 20/20 Azriel
Alt: 3x Thawing Star 18/17 Ragnarok
Alt: 1x Warriors Insignia 18/12 Arena Rank 3: Warrior
Alt: 1x Amulet of the Tempest 10/11 Ambrosia 3100
Alt: 1x Amulet of Cefka 6/12 Quest: A Look into the Darkness (Land of Water)

GLOVE:
3x Death Touch Gauntlet 12/12 Lotus/Emporium
3x Nightcraft Gauntlet 9/14 Onslaught Chest
3x Hellforge Gauntlet 14/ 6 Bahamut
Alt: 3x Hands of Bounty 10/ 9 Genesis
Alt: 3x Icy Handguard 5/ 5 Ragnarok

MAGIC:
1x Gladiator Strength 25/12 Arena Rank 4: Gladiator
3x Frost Bolt 12/25 Ragnarok
3x Angelic Rebirth 17/17 Azriel
Alt: 3x Skull Fire 16/16 Bahamut
Alt: 3x Consecration 14/14 Azriel
Alt: 1x Tempest Storm 17/10 Ambrosia 4500
Alt: 3x Atlantean Force Field 10/17 Sea Serpent Alchemy

TanithTT
06-06-2010, 01:11 AM
This is probably a viable strategy for anyone over L300 as well (regardless of build), where they could be facing opponents anywhere from L300 to L2000+

Azraelswrd
06-06-2010, 01:30 AM
I might try this once I have more stamina. I'm really curious what WC people are using around my level. The few times I attacked, people were still using default formations or this one person who put herself in the 1 pt slot (???????). She went down in flames.

Cohen the Barbarian
06-06-2010, 04:38 AM
I might try this once I have more stamina. I'm really curious what WC people are using around my level. The few times I attacked, people were still using default formations or this one person who put herself in the 1 pt slot (???????). She went down in flames.

That is why my current strategy is to put my strongest generals on the right most slots.

IronSteel
06-06-2010, 06:41 AM
I see the new "war" feature is very favorable to players with many favor points, including those who pay for them. After all, if you buy good generals you directly increase your chance to win here. True, items have their influence, but high level players will all have very good items. But only those who pay will have all the best generals... i don't like that part of "war"...

RiverRock
06-06-2010, 07:14 AM
I just did a war and my Minerva general beat the other persons "self".:confused:
The player is also a Baron, so their stats are decent.

http://img59.imageshack.us/f/templq.jpg/
Link to Pic, If not showing. (http://img59.imageshack.us/f/templq.jpg/)


How is this possible? It seems to me that the stats on any "self" would beat any general and any combination of weapons by a long shot.

Azraelswrd
06-06-2010, 07:40 AM
You had Celesta's Devotion and I guess their stats really suck. Win.

labalaba
06-06-2010, 09:07 AM
hmm.. that's new... I always suspect they used
percentage modifiers for stats... can you ask
her combined att/def stat?

for example 500 att 700 def, have a defensive 1050 score and offensive 990 score,
with percentage that's like having a 9.9/10.5 general.. it's just a theory.

Lord Dufduf
06-06-2010, 12:14 PM
....
If your attack & defense is low there is no reason to put yourself at the Main Gate.
...


Pretty smart. Wished I thought of that.

I do a little cheating. Open up 2 windows, in one window right click on a few candidates. Duel them normal. If a win, eyeball their keep for generals, war them.

It unsuccessful war the second best opponent in the other window (it tends to refresh in the original window). When done refresh both windows at the same time.

And once again stamina wins out in the end. I am a hybrid player (400 attack 300 defense). I have most my generals to level 4. Only a small group of oracle generals Mephy basically. I save my FP for leveling and monthly generals. But due to stamina and lots of low level farming I got this:

"You are a Rank 5 - "Captain" with 1,272 War Points."

I would be at rank 6 but everybody else is rank 0 mostly. I know, I know not fair. You are not worthy of that. I agree, yet here I am. 20 SPs richer. Oh and 432 Ornate Axes.

This is not bragging. Some of you know me will attest to that. It is about waking you up from the old school. Guilty as charged. Waking people up to the "Joys of Stamina". I ooze stamina. Like the blob. Just keep oozing till I find something to eat. I don't care if 80 levels above me (yeah right) or 80 levels below me. I will just keep oozing, not pretty but effective.

Alper
06-06-2010, 03:16 PM
Me is rank 5 too and got there pretty fast, but i see no reason to go for the Rank 6. The Barbarian Capatin isnīt worth it. With reaching Rank 5 i got my 20 Bonus SP, thats it, now just wait for the release of a new tier :)

Every build has it advantages. With high stamina you can attack more often and level faster, but you have to develop something like the Tower strategy to win against someone with a pure pvp build :)

sentinel00
06-06-2010, 03:57 PM
Can you raise the points you get from your generals in the council?

Alper
06-06-2010, 04:04 PM
You can earn in total 17points, means you need 9 to win. you canīt increase this. The only thing you can do is to rearrange your generals to increase your win chances.

HellkiteVaibhav
06-06-2010, 04:07 PM
Is there any upkeep for the barbarian chieftain ? Also what's its price and is it incremental ?

RiverRock
06-06-2010, 11:21 PM
Azraelswrd: You had Celesta's Devotion and I guess their stats really suck. Win.

Maybe Minerva is wearing superman's cape for a reason and her armor is just for show.



labalaba: hmm.. that's new... I always suspect they used
percentage modifiers for stats... can you ask
her combined att/def stat?

for example 500 att 700 def, have a defensive 1050 score and offensive 990 score,
with percentage that's like having a 9.9/10.5 general.. it's just a theory.

Unfortunately, I didn't save her keep link but she was rank Baron so her stats couldn't have been that bad.

"I think" it uses your actual attack and defense stats for your "self" like it shows when changing your war council.

Th3G12iMR34p3r
06-06-2010, 11:28 PM
Is there any upkeep for the barbarian chieftain ? Also what's its price and is it incremental ?

not sure of initial cost or incremental cost but i saw in another thread (closed now) that there is NO upkeep for the BC

Brooklyn302
06-06-2010, 11:37 PM
Are the general's special abilities taken into consideration or does it just depend on their attack and defense stats?

Azraelswrd
06-06-2010, 11:38 PM
Only stats. No abilities or gear bonuses applied.

DiegoZ
06-07-2010, 12:03 AM
There's some very good strategy here =P

Such as not putting self on Main Gate for low PvP stats

London Way
06-07-2010, 01:20 AM
There's some very good strategy here =P

Such as not putting self on Main Gate for low PvP stats

Yep, and also as a strong PVP player, putting yourself at Main Gate, but then the top 2 generals go to the East & West Rampart. I mean the goal is 9 pts for the win...

So, as a non PVP player, would it make sense to put yourself on West Rampart, then your 2 best generals on the towers (3pt) followed by the 1pt spots?

In this case, the battle rides on one Rampart win, and a one pointer win....lol!

Psyched
06-07-2010, 03:05 AM
Thank you, a very useful information. :)

Anyway, I would like to revise the following to your list.

WEAPON:
1x Zarevokīs Meat Cleaver 44/22 Arena Rank 5: Hero
3x Celestial Devotion 22/44 Emporium
3x Genesis Sword 20/30 Genesis
Alt: 1x Excalibur 25/12 Alchemy Epic Bosses
Alt: 1x Berserker Axe 20/13 Malekus 4500
Alt: 1x Blade of Vengeance 17/15 Azeron 3100
Alt: 3x Deliverence 16/16 Azriel
Alt: 3x Burning Blade 16/13 Bahamut
Alt: 3x Avenging Mace 16/13 Azriel

MAGIC:
1x Gladiator Strength 25/12 Arena Rank 4: Gladiator
3x Frost Bolt 12/25 Ragnarok
3x Angelic Rebirth 17/17 Azriel
Alt: 3x Skull Fire 16/16 Bahamut
Alt: 3x Consecration 14/14 Azriel
Alt: 1x Tempest Storm 17/10 Ambrosia 4500
Alt: 3x Atlantean Force Field 10/17 Sea Serpent Alchemy

I think getting 3 DTG and 3 Night Gauntlet is not easy for nonfp/hardcore players. I would rather use 3 Icy Handguard (5/5) as easy and farmable alternatives.

Echo 41011
06-07-2010, 06:47 AM
Now, how could strategies look like? Every strategy has to increase your chance of reaching minimum 9points per duel. Why 9 points? in total you can earn 17, therefore 9 are enough to win a duel.

Here is one for Hybrid Builds against PvP builds:

Tower strategy for hybrid builds:

Assumptions:
1) You have a very good Item collection
2) You have low attack & defense stats

You sacrifice your Main Gate (5points) but win the Mage Tower (3points) and the Tower (3points).

If your attack & defense is low there is no reason to put yourself at the Main Gate. Why? Because you will loose anyway to someone who has a pvp build. Therefore you waste yourself. In my opinion its better to sacrifice the Main Gate and put yourself to the Mage Tower. Why the Mage Tower? It gives you 3 points and will be a win for sure. Besides you kill the secondary strong General of your opponent. Your best General should be at the Tower to increase your win chance and earn 3points again.

This way you gain 6 points, ergo 3points are left. You have to win 2 to 3 others fights. Which one lays in your hands. You can choice between West Rampart(2points), East Rampart(2points), Archer Wall(1point) and Armory(1point).

One opportunity is to put your secondary strongest generals in the position of East Rampart, your third strongest at Armory. Why? Because others put their strongest Generals to the positions of West Rampart and Archer Wall ;D If you win this two you have earend 9points in total - a success :)

With a good Item collection its a little like gambling too, which of you War Council members get which items, but its still doable.

Hope it helps and looking for other eventually better strategies of winning duels in WAR :)

Ignoring gear disparities, PvP's can still edge an advantage (vs Hybrid) against this configuration. Simply by putting their two best generals at the 2pt slots they avoid your character and your best general putting you at one general disadvantage. If they win those two, then they win battle.

Trigun Titan
06-07-2010, 07:05 AM
My strat~ Find the council I like for my generals, constantly re-entered the same generals in the same spots (Their items change everytime you re-enter them.) till Darius in the mage tower is attacking for 330.7. Takes time but once it's done no epic generals stand a chance. I then put Aurora** in the tower followed by Keira almost an assured +8. The heavy PVP's still kill my gate but If I can manage to win just +1 more point I'll take the War. Right now I still get chained in WAR by Royalty because no one else really has a rank, but I see a few victories and gain about 200xp extra a day. There's my strat update your council till you take a so so general 19/19 and give him all your best gear and make him the Epic slayer in the Mage tower.

Alper
06-07-2010, 11:39 AM
Ignoring gear disparities, PvP's can still edge an advantage (vs Hybrid) against this configuration. Simply by putting their two best generals at the 2pt slots they avoid your character and your best general putting you at one general disadvantage. If they win those two, then they win battle.

Sounds true, but then they will have a disadvantage against other pvp build. Would you pay this price just to avoid some looses to hybrid builds? :)

Thx @ Psyched, i will update it immediately :)

Echo 41011
06-07-2010, 08:23 PM
Sounds true, but then they will have a disadvantage against other pvp build. Would you pay this price just to avoid some looses to hybrid builds? :)

Thx @ Psyched, i will update it immediately :)

The only disadvantage I see is loosing the main gate (after which you should loose the battle for not being as awsome a PvPer). If the opposing player has his best Generals anywhere other than the +2 locations then you'll be better suited to win if you can hold the Main Gate.

Lord Dufduf
06-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Is there any upkeep for the barbarian chieftain ? Also what's its price and is it incremental ?

Barbarian Captain 23/20. Incremental. Starts at 6 mil. I got 533 arch angels 25/20 so he is already weaker, I just bought a few for fun. No upkeep.



....
You sacrifice your Main Gate (5points) but win the Mage Tower (3points) and the Tower (3points).

If your attack & defense is low there is no reason to put yourself at the Main Gate....

Ok tried this about 15-20 times or so, only worked once. There are some things going on here that are not as they seem.

When I switched myself to the tower, some of the other generals that were winning suddenly lost. Can't say it's just random gifts. Vanquish defeating Mephistopheles and things like that would happen. Mephistopheles could be armed with a stick and still win.

I also encountered people with no generals other than basic heroes winning if the humans were terribly miss matched. These no way Nautica or someone like that should ever beat Barbarus. It's almost like if the humans or the 5 point post is defeated by a big number a plus advantage spills out to the others. So when I left the 5 point, to take up a 3 point tower, I would then loose a 3 and a 2 that I was winning before.

Oh, and I'm packed with toys, meat cleaver, genesis, etc etc...

I found things like this happened to me, often enough to see it's not just a straight formula. Could just be the weapons thing. But in the end I was better off warring only those I could defeat in a duel. There were a few exceptions of course.

IronSteel
06-08-2010, 09:48 AM
There is only 1 strategy i see in war. You have to buy generals, meaning you have to buy favor points. Smart move by the developers. I play without paying them so i have a really difficult time leveling up in war... if someone has a few paid generals they always win. That's all i can say about "strategy" in war. I am disappointed.

Alper
06-08-2010, 09:57 AM
Ok tried this about 15-20 times or so, only worked once. There are some things going on here that are not as they seem.

When I switched myself to the tower, some of the other generals that were winning suddenly lost. Can't say it's just random gifts. Vanquish defeating Mephistopheles and things like that would happen. Mephistopheles could be armed with a stick and still win.

I also encountered people with no generals other than basic heroes winning if the humans were terribly miss matched. These no way Nautica or someone like that should ever beat Barbarus. It's almost like if the humans or the 5 point post is defeated by a big number a plus advantage spills out to the others. So when I left the 5 point, to take up a 3 point tower, I would then loose a 3 and a 2 that I was winning before.

Oh, and I'm packed with toys, meat cleaver, genesis, etc etc...

I found things like this happened to me, often enough to see it's not just a straight formula. Could just be the weapons thing. But in the end I was better off warring only those I could defeat in a duel. There were a few exceptions of course.

It has to do with the rearrangement of your items. Every time you change your war council the allocation of the items is changed once too. This way Nautica can have an attack power boost of over 300 while barbarus only gets something like 200ap.

if you try a few times you can strenghen weaker generals or the positions you want to win. if you have as a hybrid 400ap an above there is no need to use the top items like ZMC or Moonfall Amulet for the position you put in yourself. Rearrange till yourself and the Generals at your Main Gate get the weakest items and your generals in your winning position the best.

I will do some easy maths today :)

Alper
06-08-2010, 12:11 PM
Here is a list of the maximum attack power you can get from items and generals:

Best Item Set while attacking:
Zarevokīs Meat Cleaver 44/22
Sword of Redemption 50/30
Helm of Dragon Power 30/30
Deathrune Hellplate 18/27
Transcendence 46/36
Death Touch Gauntlet 12/12
Gladiator Strength 25/12
----------------
Maximum: in total 343,3 AP while attacking

Best Item Set while defending:
Celestial Devotion 22/44
Sword of Redemption 50/30
Helm of Dragon Power 30/30
Deathrune Hellplate 18/27
Transcendence 46/36
Death Touch Gauntlet 12/12
Frost Bolt 12/25
----------------
Maximum: in total 337 AP while defending

Best Generals while attacking:
Malekus: 31/21 45,7AP (maximum)
Azeron: 28/24 44,8AP
Aurora: 26/26 44,2AP
Ambrosia 26/26 44,2AP
Azriel: 28/22 43,4AP
Mephistopheles: 27/23 43,1AP
Lotus: 26/19 39,3AP
Sylvanas: 23/23 39,1AP
Orc King: 22/22 37,4AP
Kull: 22/21 36,7AP
Keira: 18/26 36,2AP
Skaar: 22/20 36 AP
Stone Guardian: 20/22 35,4AP

Penelope 3/ 6 7,2AP (minimum)

Best Generals while defending:
Aurora: 26/26 44,2AP (maximum)
Ambrosia: 26/26 44,2AP
Azeron: 28/24 43,6AP
Malekus: 31/21 42,7AP
Mephistopheles: 27/23 41,9AP
Azriel: 28/22 41,6AP
Sylvanas: 23/23 39,1AP
Keira: 18/26 38,6AP
Kull: 22/21 36,4AP
Orc King: 22/22 37,4AP
Lotus: 26/19 37,2AP
Stone Guardian: 20/22 36 AP
Skaar: 22/20 35,4AP

Strider: 6/ 3 7,3AP (minimum)

Conclusions:


You can increase your Attackpower to max. 389AP with Malekus & best Items set while attacking
You can increase your Attackpower to max. 381,2AP with Aurora/Ambrosia & best Items set while defending
Items are very important for War (nothing new). But its immense, look at this:

Example: Penelope (7,5AP) & Malekus (45,7AP). They have a difference of 38,2 AP while attacking.
Suggestion: Every item is the same, only two are different:

Attackpower while attacking:
Penelope has Sword of Redemption (71AP, best Shield), Malekus has "only" Purgatory (51 AP, 2nd best Shield) = +20AP for Penelope
Penelope has Moonfall Amulet (68AP, 2nd best Amulet), Makelus has "only" Soulless Pendant (42,5, 3rd best Amulet) = +25,5AP for Penelope
In total: +45,5AP for Penelope

This two items are enough. If the other items are the same, you have 7,3 more Attackpower with Penelope while attacking as with Makelus while attacking.

Barnie
06-08-2010, 02:01 PM
Sorry if this was tackled already but since defense was mentioned, I would like to raise the question: is the gear selection also optimized on the defensive?

For example, I (as a general) was bringing the #1 weapon, #1 off-hand, #1 helm, #2 armor, #4 amulet, #1 spell and #3 glove that I have in War. So on the offense, my set would be (assume I have every item CA has to offer):
ZMC
SoR
HoDP
Archangels Battlegear
Blood Flask
Gladiator Strength
Hellforge Gauntlets

Will I be bringing the same stuff on defense? The #2 armor on defense is Holy Plate, Archangels Battlegear is only #3. Same for Gladiators Stregth, Frost Bolt is the top on defense while GS is only second best. I may be optimized for offense but maybe not for defense?

DWDucK
06-08-2010, 02:08 PM
Just a little math for you all to consider:

there are 7 positions to win / lose

therefore there are 128 posible point combinations (2^7 = 128)

you need 9 points to win, which are 64 of those possible combinations

of those 64 winning combos 52 require winning the main gate for 5 points.

that leaves just 12 winning scenarios without the main gate.

so thats 12/128 = 9.375% chance to win

DWDucK
06-08-2010, 02:10 PM
That is why my current strategy is to put my strongest generals on the right most slots.

also know as a "Refused Flank", been considering that myself... ;)

Patrick D
06-08-2010, 02:41 PM
Just a little math for you all to consider:

there are 7 positions to win / lose

therefore there are 128 posible point combinations (2^7 = 128)

you need 9 points to win, which are 64 of those possible combinations

of those 64 winning combos 52 require winning the main gate for 5 points.

that leaves just 12 winning scenarios without the main gate.

so thats 12/128 = 9.375% chance to win

That's nice but if I place my character on the main gate I have an approximately 0,1% chance to win, so I'll gladly take that 9.375%. :D

Foehammer
06-08-2010, 05:26 PM
It depends what your Attack/Defense stats are, which Generals you have, etc.

This is a feature that heavily favors Oracle Chest generals (i.e. Malekus). Fortunately, I am one of the lucky ones that purchased Memnon and all his gear before they discontinued it.

Really, though, it depends on how your prey/predator has their generals alligned. Your goal is to win the majority, so if they have one good general and the rest are crap, it might be prudent to give up the Main Gate and focus on the wings.

In the end, CC players will dominate non-CC players. And I am an occasional, though not monthly, CC player. I am planning on investing in CA heavily in July, after I get a bonus.

Foehammer
06-08-2010, 05:30 PM
Barbarian Captain 23/20. Incremental. Starts at 6 mil. I got 533 arch angels 25/20 so he is already weaker, I just bought a few for fun. No upkeep.



Ok tried this about 15-20 times or so, only worked once. There are some things going on here that are not as they seem.

When I switched myself to the tower, some of the other generals that were winning suddenly lost. Can't say it's just random gifts. Vanquish defeating Mephistopheles and things like that would happen. Mephistopheles could be armed with a stick and still win.

I also encountered people with no generals other than basic heroes winning if the humans were terribly miss matched. These no way Nautica or someone like that should ever beat Barbarus. It's almost like if the humans or the 5 point post is defeated by a big number a plus advantage spills out to the others. So when I left the 5 point, to take up a 3 point tower, I would then loose a 3 and a 2 that I was winning before.

Oh, and I'm packed with toys, meat cleaver, genesis, etc etc...

I found things like this happened to me, often enough to see it's not just a straight formula. Could just be the weapons thing. But in the end I was better off warring only those I could defeat in a duel. There were a few exceptions of course.

Yeah, as with regular battles, you need to pick and choose your targets. After a certain point, you need to pull out the CC and invest in 3-4 Oracle monthly generals.

I haven't invested much in the chests. I like sure things, and am not a gambler.

Azraelswrd
06-08-2010, 06:54 PM
Eh, easier route would be to farm the dickens out of monsters. Yes, that may entail becoming a CC cowboy, but at least you don't have to. Join a monster kill group and you should get an epic every operation. With those chest generals.... bleh.... might as well call it Russian Roulette.

I'm sitting with 4 epics (Malekus, Mephy, Azriel, Aurora) but as I look at my losses, it almost always comes down to the damn gear. If I'm looking at a ZMC-Devotion-Moonfall-DTG, it's over Johnny unless it's against Ghost Rider (me).

I still win but as I've climbed the war ranks, most of the people coming to say "hi" are people that can also say "give me your war points, punk!". :D

DarkMichal
06-08-2010, 07:11 PM
now war for lvl > 100 ;)

Azraelswrd
06-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Awesome! FRESH MEAT!!!! :D Hurry up and get to rank 5 so I can get 10 war points!

DarkMichal
06-08-2010, 07:29 PM
but how are you going to find them ? You can't make warduel from keep ,can you ?

icollyer
06-08-2010, 07:30 PM
but how are you going to find them ? You can't make warduel from keep ,can you ?

Not at the moment, but that makes no sense.

C'mon devs, put war links in keeps! :rolleyes:

How is it any worse or more dangerous than duel/invade links?

Foehammer
06-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Not at the moment, but that makes no sense.

C'mon devs, put war links in keeps! :rolleyes:

How is it any worse or more dangerous than duel/invade links?

Well, this is a nice feature, actually... it protects us from constant chaining... so War Ranks are actually safer than Battle Ranks....

Problem is, it also creates a glass ceiling... you have to find the buggers before you can hammer 'em

Foehammer
06-08-2010, 07:56 PM
Eh, easier route would be to farm the dickens out of monsters. Yes, that may entail becoming a CC cowboy, but at least you don't have to. Join a monster kill group and you should get an epic every operation. With those chest generals.... bleh.... might as well call it Russian Roulette.

I'm sitting with 4 epics (Malekus, Mephy, Azriel, Aurora) but as I look at my losses, it almost always comes down to the damn gear. If I'm looking at a ZMC-Devotion-Moonfall-DTG, it's over Johnny unless it's against Ghost Rider (me).

I still win but as I've climbed the war ranks, most of the people coming to say "hi" are people that can also say "give me your war points, punk!". :D

Yeah... but its like 1,000 stam for 6 favor points... 5,000 for 30?? That's alot of waiting around. Or I could just skip Starbucks today and use the $ to get a Barbarus for my alt account.... :D

DarkMichal
06-08-2010, 08:24 PM
I think it's very bad idea to spend thousends stamina points for chaining acolytes now. I will wait week or two , get more levels, items and then attack higher ranks.

Foehammer
06-08-2010, 08:38 PM
Here's a thought... and this is QUITE devious... though you'll probably notice two inherant flaws in this strategy.


Build an alternate character to your own. No need to keep up with your ridiculous energy/stamina stats (if you have them). Just pump in enough Attack/Defense to match your Main. Then give them the exact same generals (might cost some dough, so what).

Enter a battle with your ALT. If you ALT can beat it, your MAIN will probably also beat it. The sacrificial lamb will take all the losses, shielding your main from them. So you can rise in stats rather quickly with one, and take all the beat downs with the other.

[Now, slaughter me]

Foehammer
06-08-2010, 08:39 PM
I think it's very bad idea to spend thousends stamina points for chaining acolytes now. I will wait week or two , get more levels, items and then attack higher ranks.

Interesting strategy. Sort of like the U.S. in WW2.... ;)

Alper
06-08-2010, 08:47 PM
Here's a thought... and this is QUITE devious... though you'll probably notice two inherant flaws in this strategy.


Build an alternate character to your own. No need to keep up with your ridiculous energy/stamina stats (if you have them). Just pump in enough Attack/Defense to match your Main. Then give them the exact same generals (might cost some dough, so what).

Enter a battle with your ALT. If you ALT can beat it, your MAIN will probably also beat it. The sacrificial lamb will take all the losses, shielding your main from them. So you can rise in stats rather quickly with one, and take all the beat downs with the other.

[Now, slaughter me]


1) Will take months
2) You canīt attack the same one your ALT attacks ;D you find your enemys in the battle page, no bookmarking option ;D

DarkMichal
06-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Interesting strategy. Sort of like the U.S. in WW2.... ;)

It's just browser game :D All i care about is to be better than most of players on my lvl :) I dont want to waste to many stamina on acolytes :/

CSeyoum
06-08-2010, 09:45 PM
Awesome! FRESH MEAT!!!! :D Hurry up and get to rank 5 so I can get 10 war points!

your fresh meat :D, let me find you im killing every1 17-0

Foehammer
06-09-2010, 03:04 PM
1) Will take months
2) You canīt attack the same one your ALT attacks ;D you find your enemys in the battle page, no bookmarking option ;D

Well, it depends on how high you are. Fortunately, I started a 2nd build about one month into the game and its within 50 levels of my main.

Also, I think the DEVs will eventually add it to the Keep page as well. From the kind of language they've been using, I think that server load is an issue. Once they have that resolved, it will probably be added.

ON THE OTHER HAND, maybe they are trying to prevent chaining with the x10 Duels. It is conceivable that if you pissed somebody off, they could completely destroy your war ranking efforts for a month. Imagine somebody pissing off a 1,000+ High King, only to logon later that day to find out their 2,000 War Points have dropped to 35.

Foehammer
06-09-2010, 03:05 PM
I don't remember who said it, but there's always that whole "open a couple tabs" strategy where you x10 Duel in a new tab... and if you lose, rearrange your general to increase your odds of winning....

But I think that the random placement of weapons and gear tends to be a bigger factor than generals.

isaluteyou
06-09-2010, 03:48 PM
i love this new war. 10 free stat points in 5 minutes. Think i will stop now as all i see are acolytes.

Im using the strat OP recommended here. Have not lost a war duel. Even when defending. Its funny how many main gates i win and i all i have defending it is leon lionhart guy at lvl2:p

The one thing i dislike however is random allocation of items. I want to assign weapons and not have my best stuff allocated to the 1 point castle position on my worst general. Anyway around this?

There must also be a serious random factor as i lost one castle position when not only my general was better but so was my gear. Guess it as a glitch as it has only happened 1 time so far.

icollyer
06-09-2010, 07:41 PM
I don't remember who said it, but there's always that whole "open a couple tabs" strategy where you x10 Duel in a new tab... and if you lose, rearrange your general to increase your odds of winning....

But I think that the random placement of weapons and gear tends to be a bigger factor than generals.

Yup, gear is the deciding factor.

Invade first, see exactly what gear they have, then War (or not).

Azraelswrd
06-09-2010, 08:16 PM
your fresh meat :D, let me find you im killing every1 17-0

Are you in the 300 club yet? I can't see you...

I get pounded on everyday by the higher ups and yet I still hover around 1200. I lost over 100 points yesterday while in court and today, I'm back up 100 points.

Passive power!!!

Still no interest in zipping up to rank 6 and grabbing the Captains. Not until they install the next tier.

Bloogo
06-10-2010, 12:15 PM
Are you in the 300 club yet? I can't see you...

I get pounded on everyday by the higher ups and yet I still hover around 1200. I lost over 100 points yesterday while in court and today, I'm back up 100 points.

Passive power!!!

Still no interest in zipping up to rank 6 and grabbing the Captains. Not until they install the next tier.

I'm with Az....set me up a few juicy level 7 targets first.

Foehammer
06-10-2010, 04:28 PM
Are you in the 300 club yet? I can't see you...

I get pounded on everyday by the higher ups and yet I still hover around 1200. I lost over 100 points yesterday while in court and today, I'm back up 100 points.

Passive power!!!

Still no interest in zipping up to rank 6 and grabbing the Captains. Not until they install the next tier.

Yeah. But those Ornate Axes were nice. I bought 501 of them the moment they were unlocked. Don't think I needed anywhere near that many... but you never know if they'll create an army +60 general....

Azraelswrd
06-10-2010, 04:37 PM
I already bought enough [OA] to make them my "worst" invasion weapons with Mephy both in assault and defensive actions. I doubt anything this cheap and useful and somewhat easy to obtain will be used toward a "Voltron" project.

Foehammer
06-10-2010, 06:35 PM
I already bought enough [OA] to make them my "worst" invasion weapons with Mephy both in assault and defensive actions. I doubt anything this cheap and useful and somewhat easy to obtain will be used toward a "Voltron" project.

:D I don't mean, "+.15 Attack for each Ornate Axe." I'm just saying if they build a +60 General it might be nice for my alt accounts that don't have 50 Genesis swords lying around....

wickedwords
06-11-2010, 04:54 AM
The gear really matters. It's to the point where I'll check someone's keep, and if they have DTG, I'll pass them by -- no matter what kind of generals they have. I'm still using icy handguards, and the difference between the two is enough for me to lose a war.

Bloogo
06-11-2010, 12:40 PM
The gear really matters. It's to the point where I'll check someone's keep, and if they have DTG, I'll pass them by -- no matter what kind of generals they have. I'm still using icy handguards, and the difference between the two is enough for me to lose a war.

The gloves are not a good indicator, the attacking power (ATT + .7 DEF) of the optimum gloves is 135.8. I currently use in War 2 x Nightcraft, 3 Hellforge & 2 Hands of bounty for attacking power of 124.8 or 91% of the optimum.

But I could be stronger than someone graced by Kobo with one DTG

HouseNdaHouse
06-11-2010, 01:20 PM
Just curious if leveling the generals matters in the att/def calculations?

Foehammer
06-11-2010, 02:02 PM
Just curious if leveling the generals matters in the att/def calculations?

Yes. But only their actual stats, not the "equipped" bonuses.

finebone
06-11-2010, 07:00 PM
Just a little math for you all to consider:

there are 7 positions to win / lose

therefore there are 128 posible point combinations (2^7 = 128)

you need 9 points to win, which are 64 of those possible combinations

of those 64 winning combos 52 require winning the main gate for 5 points.

that leaves just 12 winning scenarios without the main gate.

so thats 12/128 = 9.375% chance to win


I think the odds are better than 9%. I'm not doubting your math, It's just that these numbers look like a random probabilty chance, but if you set up your strategy to NOT take the main, you're setting up a strategy that's one of those 12 other possibilities.

CNN
06-11-2010, 09:40 PM
Hi, I've been wondering, do the generals special abilities count in War?

Azraelswrd
06-11-2010, 09:43 PM
^^I say no, or I wouldn't lose so much with Malekus and Aurora to non-epics. :)

Gear >>> General stats

Abilities that influence the player stats are moot.

Patrick D
06-11-2010, 10:23 PM
Abilities that influence the player stats are moot.

Except for the main gate which is usually occupied by the player. Right?

Azraelswrd
06-11-2010, 11:09 PM
With the summoner, all we know is our attack/defense stats are listed but who knows what that means or compares to generals. Player stats are probably not the same as general stats which would go a long way in explaining WHY gens are whooping players.

For example, 10 player stats are equal to 1 general stat. Wacky thought, eh? :D

qwertheswer
06-12-2010, 02:48 AM
do u have a list of optimum generals best for war?

Azraelswrd
06-12-2010, 02:55 AM
Any general with attack + defense >= 40 would be "good enough". Just going down the lists...

Mephy 27/23
Stone Guardian 20/22
Sylvanas 23/23
Orc King 22/22
Skaar 22/20
Lotus 26/19
Malekus 31/21
Azriel 28/22
Azeron 28/24 (and ppl said he was useless???? FOR SHAME!)
Aurora 26/26
Kull 22/21
Isolde 18/25
Athenia 24/23
Theorin 22/23
Tristram 23/18
Calista 21/19
Kaylen 19/21
Scarlett 20/20
Kataan 22/22

qwertheswer
06-12-2010, 03:38 AM
omg out of the list i only have around 3 generals whos att + def >= 40. ****...

Azraelswrd
06-12-2010, 03:41 AM
Eh, don't sweat it. The gear is more important than the general most of the time. Check the Best Gear link in my sig and see if you have those. If not.... then war is probably not for you.

KpG
06-12-2010, 02:10 PM
So... No1 is sure yet if generals who influence player stats only influence actually player stats while equipped during war or maybe they also influence their stats?

KapakyM
06-13-2010, 12:31 PM
I think that luck has the bigger advantage here. I mean you have 7 positions where 7 of your best equipments by type can be placed.... and you can`t change them - it is random. Most of the time when i lose it is not because my generals aren't good enough or I`m lacking equipment . It is simply because my worst equipment is on my best general and my best equipment is on myself (with BSI 8 i actually don`t need any equipment :) )

MichaelSeth
06-14-2010, 05:06 AM
I find the "randomly distributed gear determines who wins"
aspect of War to be rather annoying. War has plenty of
potential for strategy but it becomes a crap shoot because
the most important factor in who wins a battle is random.
Maybe I should suggest some ways for people to choose how
their gear is distributed. If you can choose your generals, you should
be able to choose your gear.

Abby Rojas
06-15-2010, 05:59 AM
Should I set-up my council in a defense mode when I'm not in war and an attack mode when I am? Or should I always have it set-up like I'm attacking?

Azraelswrd
06-15-2010, 06:00 AM
I've left it in attack formation. I still get a lot of defensive wins. Gear is more important than the generals at the end of the day.

FireKnife
06-18-2010, 07:11 PM
I have one council configuration for attacking, and another configuration for defending. I change to my offensive configuration temporarily for attacking, and then back to my defensive configuration.

I have also noticed that the configuration appears to reset after a number of hours have passed. It appears that when we choose a specific configuration for our War Council that it expires, much like our Elite Guard or Arena Guard, except that the members change positions, rather than members being deleted. Has anybody else noticed this happening?

sylvia_dianne
06-18-2010, 07:52 PM
Looks like I won't be able to go to war for several months yet cuz I'm allergic to dying repeatly. I'm pretty good with invasions, so I'll settle for that for now. I've only been playing a little over a month and am at level 150. I'm trying to put more of my experince pts into defense (150), stamina (139), & attack (106) now because I had been building up my energy(728) because I enjoyed the quests and didn't know any better. I have printed Alpercino's Strategies plus all the comments given by other players, so I should be well prepared for future battle. I will find you all when I'm ready. LOL

Azraelswrd
06-18-2010, 08:21 PM
I'll be waiting sylvia. :D With any luck we'll run into each other in PVP.


I have one council configuration for attacking, and another configuration for defending. I change to my offensive configuration temporarily for attacking, and then back to my defensive configuration.

I have also noticed that the configuration appears to reset after a number of hours have passed. It appears that when we choose a specific configuration for our War Council that it expires, much like our Elite Guard or Arena Guard, except that the members change positions, rather than members being deleted. Has anybody else noticed this happening?

Not for me. Since the last update (adding rank 7 through 9 in war), my WC has stayed the same.

sajo
06-18-2010, 08:30 PM
Just focus on making achievements- I'm at 170, and I have done all except dark legion. I got 4 helms of dragon power, 10+ Deathshields, 3 Genesis Swords, 2 Death Touch Gauntlets. I have done some Ariel and Behemot, just to get additional equipment. Now, I invade, look at people's equipment and war duel them. I'm not rushing thing with ranking, I'm at 7 right now, and I don't see much people with 7 or above. And keeping "not so high" rank is incentive for "weaker" war players to attack me, and I like free exp ;)
there is no bookmarking,so even if someone is beating me to the ground,it's only one time thing. I pretty much love War.

EDIT. My configuration changed, after I got new general.

Bill Bagot
06-18-2010, 09:39 PM
Just a little math for you all to consider:

there are 7 positions to win / lose

therefore there are 128 posible point combinations (2^7 = 128)

you need 9 points to win, which are 64 of those possible combinations

of those 64 winning combos 52 require winning the main gate for 5 points.

that leaves just 12 winning scenarios without the main gate.

so thats 12/128 = 9.375% chance to win

I'm not sure that works the way that you believe. Someone who wins the main gate still has to win 2 of the remaining 6 slots (at least) to reach the magic 9 number. That's not going to happen 90% of the time through random chance.

I should know. I'm a tank BSI and always win the main gate -- but have lost many wars.

DWDucK
06-21-2010, 04:31 PM
i'm not sure that works the way that you believe. Someone who wins the main gate still has to win 2 of the remaining 6 slots (at least) to reach the magic 9 number. that's not going to happen 90% of the time through random chance.

Someone who does not win the main gate has to win a minimum of 4 slots.
that is even less likely than winning 3 slots according to your own statement.

there are only two outcomes per slot: WIN or LOSE
Random chance in a two outcome scenario is a coin toss : HEADS or TAILS
Lets say HEADS = WIN and TAILS = LOSE
Take a quarter, two dimes, two nickles, and two pennies. (to represent the 5,3,3,2,2,1,1 slot points spread)
flip them all and record the head / tails outcome.
Do this one million times and see if the "random chance" distribution is closer to 90% failure(as you claim) or 50% failure (smart money is on 50%)


I should know. I'm a tank bsi and always win the main gate -- but have lost many wars.

I know as well. I lose the war frequently while ONLY winning the main gate battle.
this has NOTHING to do with the point combinations possible to acheive and EVERYTHING to do with my crappy generals and equipment.

There 64 winning and 64 losing combos (128 total... 7 positions, 2 outcomes... 2^7), 52 winning combinations involving the main gate and only 12 without it.
52 out of 128 is 40.625% of all possible combinations
12 out of 128 is 9.375% of all possible combinations

this math is not disputable. do the multiplications and divisions yourself. they are correct.

your odds of winning any given slot depend on the specific generals and equipment involved. I have not calculated this, never claimed to, and do not plan on doing so.

DiegoZ
06-23-2010, 11:58 PM
Update it to the first post:


WEAPON:
1x Zarevokīs Meat Cleaver 44/22 Arena Rank 5: Hero
3x Celestial Devotion 22/44 Emporium
3x Virtue of Justice 25/25 War of the Red Plains
3x Genesis Sword 20/30 Genesis

HELMET:
3x Helm of Dragon Power 30/30 Dragons Alchemy/Emporium
3x Volcanic Helm 32/14 Bahamut
3x Virtue of Fortitude 14/32

ARMOR:
3x Plate of the Ages 20/45 War of the Red Plains
3x Deathrune Hellplate 18/27 Skaar
3x Archangels Battlegear 26/14 Azriel

GLOVE:
3x Soul Crusher 16/16 Alchemy
3x Death Touch Gauntlet 12/12 Lotus/Emporium
3x Nightcraft Gauntlet 9/14 Onslaught Chest
3x Hellforge Gauntlet 14/ 6 Bahamut

Azraelswrd
06-24-2010, 12:00 AM
Soul Crusher's going to be a ***** since it requires upgrading an existing DTG. :(

DiegoZ
06-24-2010, 12:01 AM
Soul Crusher's going to be a ***** since it requires upgrading an existing DTG. :(

Yeah, you needed 3 DTG, now you need 6

Most people won't be happy about it

Azraelswrd
06-24-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm going to have to settle for 3x Virtue of Temperance for more gauntlets. 6/14 is better than my Hands of Booty and Icy Hands. :( :(

Current gauntlet spread:
1x Soul Crusher
1x DTG
1x Nightcraft Gauntlets
3x Hands of Bounty
1x Icy Hands

:(

DiegoZ
06-24-2010, 12:14 AM
I'm going to have to settle for 3x Virtue of Temperance for more gauntlets. 6/14 is better than my Hands of Booty and Icy Hands. :( :(


:(

Haha
:p





10...

Dr Devious
06-24-2010, 12:27 AM
Only stats. No abilities or gear bonuses applied.

not sure this is right aurora never losses in wc when i have her equipped sometimes it looks like she should of lost so i think I'm getting bonus attack from health,

inc0g
06-25-2010, 04:04 AM
Azeron 28/24 (and ppl said he was useless???? FOR SHAME!)

not only is he 2nd strongest on my council, he also gives me 13 stam extra when i refill lol

Azraelswrd
06-25-2010, 05:00 AM
not sure this is right aurora never losses in wc when i have her equipped sometimes it looks like she should of lost so i think I'm getting bonus attack from health,

Anything is possible. The more I hear from different people, the more I'm convinced there is something else going into calculating slot winners especially with Red Plains and hearing/seeing people getting massacred by commons.

inc0g
06-26-2010, 09:38 PM
Update it to the first post:


WEAPON:
1x Zarevokīs Meat Cleaver 44/22 Arena Rank 5: Hero
3x Celestial Devotion 22/44 Emporium
3x Virtue of Justice 25/25 War of the Red Plains
3x Genesis Sword 20/30 Genesis

HELMET:
3x Helm of Dragon Power 30/30 Dragons Alchemy/Emporium
3x Volcanic Helm 32/14 Bahamut
3x Virtue of Fortitude 14/32

ARMOR:
3x Plate of the Ages 20/45 War of the Red Plains
3x Deathrune Hellplate 18/27 Skaar
3x Archangels Battlegear 26/14 Azriel

GLOVE:
3x Soul Crusher 16/16 Alchemy
3x Death Touch Gauntlet 12/12 Lotus/Emporium
3x Nightcraft Gauntlet 9/14 Onslaught Chest
3x Hellforge Gauntlet 14/ 6 Bahamut

I'm assuming the reason for more than 7 items listed is because of offensive/defensive spread?

Azraelswrd
06-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Yes and to give people more options. How many of us non-CC players are going to go and get 3x nightcraft gauntlets? Not me! :D

inc0g
06-26-2010, 09:49 PM
lol i am a cc player ( i do have limits though) and i find it completely nuts also.

at least there's no reason for me to push rank 9 until they add more ranks. this is my list right now, though i added a frost bolt and gen sword today and didn't reload my council. not pefect, but i try

Genesis Sword x2
Zarevoks Meat Cleaver
Excalibur
Zenarean Dagger x2
Virtue of Justice

Deathshield x3
Purgatory x2
Sword of Redemption
Juggernaut Shield

Berserker Helm
Volcanic Helm x3
Helm of Dragon Power x3

Deathrune Hellplate x3
Archangels Battlegear x3
Swordsmans Plate

Thawing Star x3
Blood Flask x2
Moonfall Amulet
Soulless Pendant

Hellforge Guantlets x3
Hands of Bounty x3
Death Touch Gauntlet

Gladiators Strength
Skullfire x3
Frost Bolt
Tempest Storm
Consecration

Walking Duck
06-28-2010, 04:41 PM
Should I set-up my council in a defense mode when I'm not in war and an attack mode when I am? Or should I always have it set-up like I'm attacking?

Always set up your council in defense mode when not attacking. Same when you log off you equip your general with the strongest defense so that you get yo win your duels on passive.

steball
07-21-2010, 05:16 PM
My strat~ Find the council I like for my generals, constantly re-entered the same generals in the same spots (Their items change everytime you re-enter them.) till Darius in the mage tower is attacking for 330.7. Takes time but once it's done no epic generals stand a chance. I then put Aurora** in the tower followed by Keira almost an assured +8. The heavy PVP's still kill my gate but If I can manage to win just +1 more point I'll take the War. Right now I still get chained in WAR by Royalty because no one else really has a rank, but I see a few victories and gain about 200xp extra a day. There's my strat update your council till you take a so so general 19/19 and give him all your best gear and make him the Epic slayer in the Mage tower.

I'm confused Trigun, how do you know what equipment they are using???

wickedwords
07-21-2010, 08:27 PM
Is there a non-legendaries best equip for war list? Most of the seem full of improbable items.