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Smackadummy
05-25-2010, 01:50 AM
Is there any specfic technique to it?

Xanofar
05-25-2010, 07:21 AM
Is there any specfic technique to it?

Yes:

1. Be self-serving.
2. Ignore any sense of honor.
3. Disregard that too many people doing it will disrupt the entire balance of gameplay.
4. Lack any real skills in PvP combat.

Lok
05-25-2010, 07:22 AM
Essentially it's simple. Fight until your health is below 10, and completely log out of facebook.

(And prepare to jump into a battle if you admit to doing it here. Some hate it, others not so much.)

mydragoon
05-25-2010, 07:38 AM
Is there any specfic technique to it?

1. determine your size
2. find a rock bigger than your size (see 1)
3. stay behind the rock (so your opponents can't see you)

if you can't find a rock, a tree, building, car, helps too... if it's a car, remember to puncture the tyres. else your legs will show.

hope that helps...

igtenos
05-25-2010, 07:44 AM
Essentially it's simple. Fight until your health is below 10, and completely log out of facebook.

(And prepare to jump into a battle if you admit to doing it here. Some hate it, others not so much.)
What Lok said. Admitting you're a hider on these forums is about as popular as dressing up as Hitler at a gay pride rally. :D

You also don't have to 'log out' of facebook. Basically, just leave Castle Age and you're golden. You can do other stuff on Facebook -- just don't log back into CA.

igtenos
05-25-2010, 07:52 AM
I cannot resist poking at this. :D



1. Be self-serving.
Like nobody else isn't self-serving in castle age? Especially pvpers. Nothing but a bunch greedy self-serving evil destructive bastards. :D


2. Ignore any sense of honor.
If people believed in honor, pvpers wouldn't chain, bookmark, and hide. :rolleyes:

Honor has no place in pvp. KILL OR BE KILLED! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR!!!!11


3. Disregard that too many people doing it will disrupt the entire balance of gameplay.
To this, I agree. Sadly, the devs won't do anything about it until there are three pvpers left that don't hide.


4. Lack any real skills in PvP combat.
Nothing about pvp takes skill. Find a target. Beat him up. That's about it. If he's worth a lot of bp, you bookmark him for later. Hiding actually takes some skill because you have to make sure you have enough stamina to beat yourself under 10 health. Crazy, I know, but there is a learning curve.

Lok
05-25-2010, 08:06 AM
You also don't have to 'log out' of facebook. Basically, just leave Castle Age and you're golden. You can do other stuff on Facebook -- just don't log back into CA.

The only sure way that CA doesn't pull that your still online is to log out of facebook completely. For some reason some accounts can get by with just logging out of CA but others must log out of FB.

alnitak
05-25-2010, 07:39 PM
Yes:

1. Be self-serving.
2. Ignore any sense of honor.
3. Disregard that too many people doing it will disrupt the entire balance of gameplay.
4. Lack any real skills in PvP combat.

I'm relatively new to CA, and will never play enough, nor seriously enough, to compete with the hardcore players. So my comments need to be seen from that perspective -- not a "pro" perspective.

Seems like the above points also apply to those that bookmark people and mercilessly chain them to death every time they are online. Yet, that practice is acceptable and hiding is not? Why is that?

You have players at various levels of understanding, commitment and with different definitions of fun. Duelers with small armies are at a disadvantage in PvP (e.g., not enough gifts to get Excalibur, susceptible to invasion, etc.). People who are lucky enough to get an epic draw in a chest, or a drop from a monster, can get +attack numbers that casual players will never reach, so the casual player is at their mercy in any duel. People who invest the time to build an army (with their strangers, er..., friends) can come take away hard-earned BPs from casual players through invasion. People who are on every day can get through Azeron in 45 days and achieve epic weapons, making them virtually unbeatable in a duel against those who only play every now and then. Serious players will research and identify the optimal way to high stats through the guides and utilize that advantage (not gained by their own trial and error) to beat up on players that take a more "meandering", though individual, approach to character improvement. Others will spend all kinds of money on FPs to ensure they get the best generals, and then beat up on those that can't afford to do the same. And then there are those that use scripts to automatically launch attacks every minute a bookmarked foe is online, not even playing the game themselves!?! Tell me where the "honor" is in any of that.

Yet if one is lucky enough to win a few duels every now and then, and gain some levels in rank, they can't protect their BPs to try and reach a higher level with SP adds by hiding from the bullies? Doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see how people can use every trick in the book (like bookmarking and chaining) to gain an advantage, and then begrudge others who do the same (e.g., by hiding). Maybe there should be two versions of the game -- one for those serious, cutthroat players who take every advantage they can get, violating rules of good sportsmanship (e.g., don't kick a player when they are down), and one for the casual players who just want to have fun and maybe move up a few ranks.

I just don't get the hypocricy associated with hiding vs. their strategies. Personally, if I want to battle, I go to the Battle tab and see who is there. I would never bookmark an easy victim and chain them to death repeatedly.

Just like in any sport, you have to live with yourself and your playing style. If you chose to kick your golf ball from behind a tree, or play "winter rules" year-round, or play a mulligan and not count the strokes; if you choose to grab someone's shorts so they can't jump for a rebound, or throw a spitter just because you can get away with it; if you throw an intentional low blow in boxing, or constantly make comments about someone's mother or sister just to get under their skin in the name of gamesmanship, that's your decision and how you choose to play the game. In my mind, however, it's not "sport."

So, I'll just resign myself to being a casual, low-ranking player in CA ... and have some fun with the limited time I have available to play. It's only a game, after all.

Note: I also don't understand the "lack any real skills in PvP" comment. What "skill" do you need -- the computer makes all the decisions for you based on what equipment you have. Is it a skill to choose a player you know you can beat (say with your army of 501 vs. theirs of 10 friends)?

Smackadummy
05-26-2010, 12:40 AM
I wouldn't click on any of spave098's links if I were you...joined today and has 3 total posts.

Xanofar
05-26-2010, 12:41 AM
Seems like the above points also apply to those that bookmark people and mercilessly chain them to death every time they are online. Yet, that practice is acceptable and hiding is not? Why is that?

Hiding isn't always a problem, it depends on how you do it.
Bookmarking isn't always a problem, depending on how you do it.

Those two aren't so bad, so long as they aren't combined with chaining.

Often, if a player is bookmarking and chaining somebody, they might be bullying them, but not necessarily. It could be mutual thing. Hiding was made as a solution to these bullies. But, obviously, it can be abused.

I have a number of people bookmarked, but I don't chain them. I just keep them as a reference for if I'm demi-point hunting and can't find any decent targets of said demi-point type. I'll usually just hit them 1-5 times to get the points I need and move on.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with chaining or bookmarking someone who gives you permission to do so. (ATMs)

Hiding in and of itself isn't a bad thing until you reach a higher rank. Once you choose to get above the Lt. General rank, you're basically saying that you're willing to take PvP seriously. In other words, you're willing to accept that you're running the risk of getting chained. Of course, the higher rank you get, the more likely you are to encounter not only 'normal' strong PvP players, but also the less respectable ones...



Note: I also don't understand the "lack any real skills in PvP" comment. What "skill" do you need -- the computer makes all the decisions for you based on what equipment you have. Is it a skill to choose a player you know you can beat (say with your army of 501 vs. theirs of 10 friends)?

Skill points. Most hiders put all their points into Attack, and not Defense. They hide to compensate for their terrible Defense.

Many other players are glass cannons, but the decent ones are willing to accept that they will have many losses from other attackers.

Of course, there are some players who have crappy stats - period - who only got up in rank by either attacking people with small armies (of of significantly lower levels) whom they have bookmarked, and chain those players for all they're worth, then they hide so that they cannot lose the points.

These players aren't generally found on these forums, but they do exist a-plenty out there. One example of a player like that is Omniyishi or whatever his name is one here. But, of course, we all hate him for many other reasons as well... :p

TheLord
05-26-2010, 01:14 AM
1. determine your size
2. find a rock bigger than your size (see 1)
3. stay behind the rock (so your opponents can't see you)

if you can't find a rock, a tree, building, car, helps too... if it's a car, remember to puncture the tyres. else your legs will show.
Nicely said! :D

Draconus
05-26-2010, 02:08 AM
I wouldn't click on any of spave098's links if I were you...joined today and has 3 total posts.

I'm not sure if it's advertising, political advertising (which may well be worse), or just a lame attempt at spreading worms or virus.

Draconus
05-26-2010, 02:31 AM
I'm relatively new to CA, and will never play enough, nor seriously enough, to compete with the hardcore players. So my comments need to be seen from that perspective -- not a "pro" perspective.



Your relative newness allows you some leeway so please allow me to attempt to educate you. Or at least point you in the right direction to learn about this game.

Hiding is an exploit of a safety feature intended to protect people from excessive chaining specifically when they are offline. It is most often used by those who have pumped up their attack stat but left themselves exceedingly weak on defense. Think of them as the Hit and Run driver in the neighborhood. You know this driver will be coming through the neighborhood and will bash into the car of one or more of your friends, possibly bash into Your car, and then take off so they can't be found. And they are doing so on purpose. There is little honor to be found in such actions. Some very few will admit to being hiders, but you have to catch them online to exact retribution.

Chaining is an open part of CA PvP. How much or how long a person chains another depends upon the person. Some very few claim that they never, ever, chain another person. Who knows, they might well be telling the truth. Technically, anything more then 1 attack against the same person qualifies as chaining and you can place any time limit on it you desire.

Bookmarking was most likely not intended by the creators of CA, but it does have it's uses. It helps to catch Hiders, and there are some few others who just plain deserve such treatment for one reason or another with some of those reasons possibly even being valid. For someone like myself, with a build made for PvP and a desire to gain battle rank, bookmarking becomes almost required if I am to find targets of high enough rank to provide battle points with which to raise my own rank. No, I don't tend to hit them daily. But hit them I shall.

Those with a small army do suffer a disadvantage to those with a large army. Yet at the same time they know the risk(s) involved in having that small army. They know the benefits to be had for having a large or larger army even outside of PvP. And knowing these things they still choose to have but a small army. If you know you will break your neck by jumping off that cliff, and you jump off that cliff anyway, whose fault is it when you get your neck broken? My own army is in excess of 1300 and tends to grow daily. That number serves me very nicely indeed outside of PvP.

alnitak
05-26-2010, 03:08 AM
Thanks Xanofar and Draconus. You both made points I hadn't considered in my reply, and with my limited knowledge of the game. I've also read more threads on the board, and gained some new insights as well. For example, someone made the point that entering into a chaining war actually results in more BPs to both players. I assume this is when both are of similar rank and they only lose half the amount they win from each other?

I can also appreciate the points about finding competition as you move up in rank, and that bookmarking might be useful there, actually keeping you from "bullying." And I have seen where people post their keep site and invite people to chain them. (What is ATM?) I just assumed that was because they were all defense and hoped to gain BPs as others crashed against their "wall", or, that they were so far advanced (e.g., King) that they really couldn't be hurt.

As I commented in another post (I think only my 8th), chaining seems to be an inherent part of this genre of games. As an old guy (mid-50's), it seems that the early games, such as D&D, all had elements of entering into battles until one or the other opponent were dead as the primary means of gaining rewards, building experinece, finding new places, etc. Though hiding, or at least not engaging and just exploring, is also a fundamental component. Consequently, I don't see anything amiss in either strategy, as long as it is done within some of the guidelines you both have outlined.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the "skill" aspect of PvP. I didn't get the context correctly -- still coming from the mindset of single player games with more control over character development and game decisions/strategy. That mindset also kept me with a small army for a long time, thinking I could play by myself and advance in the game. I have recently started building up my army after realizing that I was losing a bunch of BPs by being invaded, versus duels. However, I doubt I will ever become socialized enough to be comfortable with all my new "friends." (Can I really delete them as friends and not lose them from my army? Can I still receive gifts if I delete them?)

Lastly, I appreciate your patience and taking time to help with the explanations and my understanding. I will never be a highly-ranked player, but your insight will help me enjoy the game more. Thanks again.

Now, off to reading more threads and strategy guides to learn what I can.

joesk
05-26-2010, 03:13 AM
I am relatively new and not a hard core PvPer also. But I did get my battle rank up pretty good. But have noticed I have been chain attacked a lot and each time I try to get some of my points back from them, they are hidden.

I think a lot of the ones attacking are using a bot or something cause i have tried many times attacking them and they are always hidden. I never thought to bookmark them, I just look in my history in CA to find them. On my space bots made mobsters almost unplayable if you worried about your stats.

I have just started concentrating on monster killing and not worrying about PvP stats since i am never going to have a large army, since the only poeple that are chaining me are invaders. I have a High Defense stat so duelers have a hard time against me.

Lok
05-26-2010, 04:14 AM
I assume this is when both are of similar rank and they only lose half the amount they win from each other?

Yes, when I attack you, you loose a specific amount and I gain a specific amount based on our ranks, and its the same way when you attack me. (although you might get more/less BP depending on rank)

Ex.
I attack you, win 8 BP, you loose 3 BP
You attack me you win 8 BP, I loose 3 BP
(we both gain 5 BP)
Depending on rank these numbers change but usually both people win as long as you are not fighting people either way higher or way lower in rank.


And I have seen where people post their keep site and invite people to chain them. (What is ATM?)
ATM (like automated teller machine)
This is just a forum tradition where we can all see how we stand compared to each other. Also sometimes players reach their goal in rank and feel they don't need the BP's anymore and "donate" them to other players (if they can win)

Xanofar
05-26-2010, 04:16 AM
I am relatively new and not a hard core PvPer also. But I did get my battle rank up pretty good. But have noticed I have been chain attacked a lot and each time I try to get some of my points back from them, they are hidden.

I think a lot of the ones attacking are using a bot or something cause i have tried many times attacking them and they are always hidden. I never thought to bookmark them, I just look in my history in CA to find them. On my space bots made mobsters almost unplayable if you worried about your stats.

I have just started concentrating on monster killing and not worrying about PvP stats since i am never going to have a large army, since the only poeple that are chaining me are invaders. I have a High Defense stat so duelers have a hard time against me.

Unfortunately, you don't need bots to hide that well.

ImYious or whatever his name is, does it a lot.


Thanks Xanofar and Draconus. You both made points I hadn't considered in my reply, and with my limited knowledge of the game. I've also read more threads on the board, and gained some new insights as well. For example, someone made the point that entering into a chaining war actually results in more BPs to both players. I assume this is when both are of similar rank and they only lose half the amount they win from each other?

I can also appreciate the points about finding competition as you move up in rank, and that bookmarking might be useful there, actually keeping you from "bullying." And I have seen where people post their keep site and invite people to chain them. (What is ATM?) I just assumed that was because they were all defense and hoped to gain BPs as others crashed against their "wall", or, that they were so far advanced (e.g., King) that they really couldn't be hurt.

As I commented in another post (I think only my 8th), chaining seems to be an inherent part of this genre of games. As an old guy (mid-50's), it seems that the early games, such as D&D, all had elements of entering into battles until one or the other opponent were dead as the primary means of gaining rewards, building experinece, finding new places, etc. Though hiding, or at least not engaging and just exploring, is also a fundamental component. Consequently, I don't see anything amiss in either strategy, as long as it is done within some of the guidelines you both have outlined.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the "skill" aspect of PvP. I didn't get the context correctly -- still coming from the mindset of single player games with more control over character development and game decisions/strategy. That mindset also kept me with a small army for a long time, thinking I could play by myself and advance in the game. I have recently started building up my army after realizing that I was losing a bunch of BPs by being invaded, versus duels. However, I doubt I will ever become socialized enough to be comfortable with all my new "friends." (Can I really delete them as friends and not lose them from my army? Can I still receive gifts if I delete them?)

Lastly, I appreciate your patience and taking time to help with the explanations and my understanding. I will never be a highly-ranked player, but your insight will help me enjoy the game more. Thanks again.

Now, off to reading more threads and strategy guides to learn what I can.

You can delete them, and they will remain in your army, but no, you cannot still receive gifts from one another.