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View Full Version : Understanding chainers... Why chain?



mydragoon
05-21-2010, 03:57 AM
I am one of those that's puzzled by chainers...

Why do chainers chain and be proud of it? Why do they hide after that?

Is it because chainers want a high BATTLES WON stats? Isn't that why Devs came out with Raids? You can score wins there and no one can tell if your WIN is from raids or otherwise...

Or is it because of BP -- So you can rise to Royalty level? Errr... Then do what after you achieve it? Hide all the way?!? Then what's the fun in playing a game when you have to live in fear all the time?!? :rolleyes: :D

Dodotz
05-21-2010, 04:00 AM
http://www.castleageforums.com/cforum/showthread.php?p=968929#post968929
I think it will help you.

mydragoon
05-21-2010, 04:03 AM
http://www.castleageforums.com/cforum/showthread.php?p=968929#post968929
I think it will help you.

informative... tq for the link. and i just realised i posted on the wrong section. it was supposed to go to general discussion... sorry. :o

was going thru the link you sent me... errrr... anyway to delete this topic before i get chained to death...?!? LOL...

Christopher Gallagher
05-21-2010, 04:04 AM
First of all, you're making way to many assumptions. Your first assumption is that all chainers are hiders. We all do not.

Second of all, it's not about matches won. Sometimes, it's just about the kill.

Third of all, it has nothing to do with battle points. And again, you're assuming we hide.

We chain to make cuddly friends, we chain to get battle points thereby gaining rank. We chain to annoy someone enough they call in their friends whom we can chain. We chain.. to chain some more! :)

Neo007
05-21-2010, 04:11 AM
was going thru the link you sent me... errrr... anyway to delete this topic before i get chained to death...?!? LOL...

Too late for that.. wait for Big Ginger Jim come to visit lol.

Azraelswrd
05-21-2010, 04:11 AM
I chain because:

1) I'm too lazy to look for another mark.
2) Someone caught me in a bad mood
3) You've been chaining me so turnabout is fair play suckah...

kiknchikn
05-21-2010, 04:13 AM
One real reason. To make people make these threads so we can identify new victims :D

Azraelswrd
05-21-2010, 04:14 AM
Chickin, that's what forum monsters are for!

mydragoon
05-21-2010, 04:19 AM
One real reason. To make people make these threads so we can identify new victims :D

:eek: dang... now i better delete my forum account... :D

kiknchikn
05-21-2010, 04:19 AM
Chickin, that's what forum monsters are for!

No, no. I meant new UNSUSPECTING victims! :D

mydragoon
05-21-2010, 04:22 AM
First of all, you're making way to many assumptions. Your first assumption is that all chainers are hiders. We all do not.

Second of all, it's not about matches won. Sometimes, it's just about the kill.

Third of all, it has nothing to do with battle points. And again, you're assuming we hide.

We chain to make cuddly friends, we chain to get battle points thereby gaining rank. We chain to annoy someone enough they call in their friends whom we can chain. We chain.. to chain some more! :)

my bad... i was actually trying to discuss chainers who also hide. to me, this one is not so 'logical'. yes, i understand why chainers chain...

i was actually trying to understand why chainers chain and then hide... it's like someone going to a gorilla-built guy, whack his head real hard and then quickly hides behind a woman. :D

with the above comment... i'm asking to be chained... huh? but serious, i just wonder... if one is so confident of defeating others, then why worry and hide?

Syllabus
05-22-2010, 03:38 PM
I am one of those that's puzzled by chainers...

Why do chainers chain and be proud of it? Why do they hide after that?

Is it because chainers want a high BATTLES WON stats? Isn't that why Devs came out with Raids? You can score wins there and no one can tell if your WIN is from raids or otherwise...

Or is it because of BP -- So you can rise to Royalty level? Errr... Then do what after you achieve it? Hide all the way?!? Then what's the fun in playing a game when you have to live in fear all the time?!? :rolleyes: :D

I am especially puzzled by those who attack people so many levels below them that they cannot possibly get anything beneficial in the game from their attack.

I figure it's to fill in the time between pulling wings off of flies, and torturing small animals.

thorin001
05-23-2010, 12:18 AM
First of all, you're making way to many assumptions. Your first assumption is that all chainers are hiders. We all do not.

Second of all, it's not about matches won. Sometimes, it's just about the kill.

Third of all, it has nothing to do with battle points. And again, you're assuming we hide.

We chain to make cuddly friends, we chain to get battle points thereby gaining rank. We chain to annoy someone enough they call in their friends whom we can chain. We chain.. to chain some more! :)

I chained two guys before I chained two guys,
and then I chained to more...

revdjweb
05-23-2010, 04:38 AM
At nobility ranks everyone chains because viable targets are so rare and you know that everyone is as guilty of it as you are.

I don't think as many chainers deliberately hide as people think they do. I myself just log out wherever my Health is. But what happens is that in a long day of chaining people I'll have honked off at least a couple of players who are capable of beating me which they then do, knocking me below 10 Health until I come back to play some more.
So I suspect most chainers aren't hiders, they're just popular.

outofpoint
05-23-2010, 05:19 AM
I am especially puzzled by those who attack people so many levels below them that they cannot possibly get anything beneficial in the game from their attack.

I figure it's to fill in the time between pulling wings off of flies, and torturing small animals.

It's called demi points.

Cynthrice
05-23-2010, 09:15 AM
Then there are the people like myself who are still a bit low level, ok very low lvl, who find targets that give 100k per win and chain then until they are either dead or to weak to fight any more, that and the demi points.

Masterdo
05-23-2010, 09:38 AM
my bad... i was actually trying to discuss chainers who also hide. to me, this one is not so 'logical'. yes, i understand why chainers chain...

i was actually trying to understand why chainers chain and then hide... it's like someone going to a gorilla-built guy, whack his head real hard and then quickly hides behind a woman. :D

with the above comment... i'm asking to be chained... huh? but serious, i just wonder... if one is so confident of defeating others, then why worry and hide?

I also see no good reasons to hide. The thing is though, that the mechanic hides you after you drop below 10 hp while offline. So people that you think are hiding were perhaps just found by someone else before you got to them.

Hiding is to get there on purpose every time you log out. This exploits the mechanic that is otherwise very nice. It prevents people from finding a Prince deadbeat that doesn't play anymore and just farming him till doomsday, for example.

I see only 3 reasons :

- They are obsessed with win/loss ratio more than they take pride in what they spend their time on. They don't care how they accomplished it, it's a number in the end, they can brag about it anyway.

- They are exploiting the game mechanic's flaw to virtually eliminate the use for defense stats. So they can allocate everything into attack with no consequence at all, since they are never attacked anyway (or very rarely, when you do manage to get them online). It's arguably the devs fault, but then again, it depends on the value you put on the way you play a game you spend time on. No one will know, it's arguably part of the game, who can tell... Do you wash your hands in public bathrooms if no one else is in there to see if you did? Kinda the same thing. Separates those that play with their own standards.

- They are plain idiots, that don't understand that they are hiding from 10 attacks, not 10000000000. Very common on the forums, people imagine they will be attacked an unlimited amount of times if they don't hide, which is not the case. Most cases you lose 30-40 battle points, 0$ since you bank it, and you are often back to full health before you log back in. If you don't explicitly look at the battle feed, chances are you won't even notice. 4 Stamina points will get you back to where you were, and the loss count is useless anyway.

So yeah, all hiders are basically uninteresting people, that are either too dumb to understand the feature, or are exploiting it to get the same thing you did "fairly", somewhat cheapening it I guess. Just ignore them and have fun :)

igtenos
05-23-2010, 09:45 AM
Hiding is a defensive mechanism. Pure and simple. It allows you to get away with being a low bsi chainer or a chainer in general. You think you can kill 10-20 people a day and think they won't come back for revenge? Human nature doesn't work that way. Hiding makes sense when you're losing more than 50 bp a day from chainers. I did it defensively for selfish reasons -- I wanted to deny chainers my bp.

People chain because equal ranking targets when you get into the royalty tier are next to impossible to find. Blame the battle page. Do I baby this target for a couple hits & spend 30 minutes refreshing on my battle page for the next target or beat the sin out of him & bookmark his keep so I can come back later?

thorin001
05-23-2010, 09:26 PM
I also see no good reasons to hide. The thing is though, that the mechanic hides you after you drop below 10 hp while offline. So people that you think are hiding were perhaps just found by someone else before you got to them.

Hiding is to get there on purpose every time you log out. This exploits the mechanic that is otherwise very nice. It prevents people from finding a Prince deadbeat that doesn't play anymore and just farming him till doomsday, for example.

I see only 3 reasons :

- They are obsessed with win/loss ratio more than they take pride in what they spend their time on. They don't care how they accomplished it, it's a number in the end, they can brag about it anyway.

- They are exploiting the game mechanic's flaw to virtually eliminate the use for defense stats. So they can allocate everything into attack with no consequence at all, since they are never attacked anyway (or very rarely, when you do manage to get them online). It's arguably the devs fault, but then again, it depends on the value you put on the way you play a game you spend time on. No one will know, it's arguably part of the game, who can tell... Do you wash your hands in public bathrooms if no one else is in there to see if you did? Kinda the same thing. Separates those that play with their own standards.

- They are plain idiots, that don't understand that they are hiding from 10 attacks, not 10000000000. Very common on the forums, people imagine they will be attacked an unlimited amount of times if they don't hide, which is not the case. Most cases you lose 30-40 battle points, 0$ since you bank it, and you are often back to full health before you log back in. If you don't explicitly look at the battle feed, chances are you won't even notice. 4 Stamina points will get you back to where you were, and the loss count is useless anyway.

So yeah, all hiders are basically uninteresting people, that are either too dumb to understand the feature, or are exploiting it to get the same thing you did "fairly", somewhat cheapening it I guess. Just ignore them and have fun :)

You forgot passing up on all that XP from defensive wins.

Masterdo
05-23-2010, 11:35 PM
Hiding is a defensive mechanism. Pure and simple. It allows you to get away with being a low bsi chainer or a chainer in general. You think you can kill 10-20 people a day and think they won't come back for revenge? Human nature doesn't work that way. Hiding makes sense when you're losing more than 50 bp a day from chainers. I did it defensively for selfish reasons -- I wanted to deny chainers my bp.

People chain because equal ranking targets when you get into the royalty tier are next to impossible to find. Blame the battle page. Do I baby this target for a couple hits & spend 30 minutes refreshing on my battle page for the next target or beat the sin out of him & bookmark his keep so I can come back later?

50 BP takes 5 stamina to get back, and you usually chain till the other dies anyway, making back 50 BP at least from the opponent once the same stamina has been spent. BP are created in pvp, not only exchanged. Hiding means there are less BP in the world, less Princes to chain, etc.

You really gain nothing from hiding, it's in your imagination. If your attacker is a script, then he will get you every second while you are online, so there is nothing hiding can do to protect you against that anyway. You have to play sometime, he'll get you at that time, hiding or not.

My dream : Everyone should hide for a full month. Everyone. Hiders that think that it's part of the game mechanics are tools. The game would completely break if everyone was using that "feature". How about a new feature advertised as so : "Hey, here is a cool new trick, but if everyone does it, the game breaks, enjoy." . It's obviously just a flaw, that some are cheap enough to use. And gain absolutely nothing for it, except a nice win/loss ratio that doesn't lead anywhere. When that 4 BSI dude you chained manages to find you online and destroy you easily, you look way more dumb with that 20:1 ratio than you would have if you played as intended. And you would be about at the same rank anyway.

Ignorants and 5 years old hide. The rest get chained once while asleep, then proceed to gain back two to three times as much as the lost with 10 stamina and never think about it again.

Kumo
05-24-2010, 03:39 AM
1. Tagging any boss that I am working on, Critical or Non-Critical. I do not play this game to spend my FP's so others can get easy ones.

2. You chained me, I want my gold back! :)))

igtenos
05-24-2010, 04:29 AM
50 BP takes 5 stamina to get back, and you usually chain till the other dies anyway, making back 50 BP at least from the opponent once the same stamina has been spent. BP are created in pvp, not only exchanged. Hiding means there are less BP in the world, less Princes to chain, etc.

You really gain nothing from hiding, it's in your imagination. If your attacker is a script, then he will get you every second while you are online, so there is nothing hiding can do to protect you against that anyway. You have to play sometime, he'll get you at that time, hiding or not.

My dream : Everyone should hide for a full month. Everyone. Hiders that think that it's part of the game mechanics are tools. The game would completely break if everyone was using that "feature". How about a new feature advertised as so : "Hey, here is a cool new trick, but if everyone does it, the game breaks, enjoy." . It's obviously just a flaw, that some are cheap enough to use. And gain absolutely nothing for it, except a nice win/loss ratio that doesn't lead anywhere. When that 4 BSI dude you chained manages to find you online and destroy you easily, you look way more dumb with that 20:1 ratio than you would have if you played as intended. And you would be about at the same rank anyway.

Ignorants and 5 years old hide. The rest get chained once while asleep, then proceed to gain back two to three times as much as the lost with 10 stamina and never think about it again.
You're sounding a little overemotional about this.

I can understand the frustration -- having someone chain you down and hide is pretty annoying at a human level. But ultimate who's to blame for it? The player for abusing a loophole the devs purpousely ignore? or the devs for letting players get away with it? The developers of this game have shown how much they care about pvp. They refuse to address hiding, chaining, and bookmarking and -- in my opinion -- likely never will. They're too busy crapping out new monsters for the MVP crowd.

As for my chainers, it wasn't just one chainer -- it was closer to 3. Also factor into the equation I have 138 health thanks to Aurora prayers. And you're assuming I could find an unlimited supply of Dukes to beat on -- that wasn't the case. I'd say a good 70% of the players I beat on to get to Prince were Barons coughing up 6bp a piece. So yeah -- I had a legit reason to hide. Now, I don't care anymore so I don't hide. Now that I'm a prince, I can't lose any more bp and as I have zero aspirations for High King, I should be fine. I barely look at my battle page anymore.

mydragoon
05-24-2010, 05:58 AM
At nobility ranks everyone chains because viable targets are so rare and you know that everyone is as guilty of it as you are.

I don't think as many chainers deliberately hide as people think they do. I myself just log out wherever my Health is. But what happens is that in a long day of chaining people I'll have honked off at least a couple of players who are capable of beating me which they then do, knocking me below 10 Health until I come back to play some more.
So I suspect most chainers aren't hiders, they're just popular.

i would like to agree that these guys just got whacked to sub10. but i tried like diff times of the day, every few hours, 24hrs, etc... for over a week (i book marked them so i could 'repay')... always 'too weak'. and these are not nobility-ranked ppl... so, i would like to think they are hiders.

Masterdo
05-24-2010, 06:18 AM
You're sounding a little overemotional about this.

I can understand the frustration -- having someone chain you down and hide is pretty annoying at a human level. But ultimate who's to blame for it? The player for abusing a loophole the devs purpousely ignore? or the devs for letting players get away with it? The developers of this game have shown how much they care about pvp. They refuse to address hiding, chaining, and bookmarking and -- in my opinion -- likely never will. They're too busy crapping out new monsters for the MVP crowd.

As for my chainers, it wasn't just one chainer -- it was closer to 3. Also factor into the equation I have 138 health thanks to Aurora prayers. And you're assuming I could find an unlimited supply of Dukes to beat on -- that wasn't the case. I'd say a good 70% of the players I beat on to get to Prince were Barons coughing up 6bp a piece. So yeah -- I had a legit reason to hide. Now, I don't care anymore so I don't hide. Now that I'm a prince, I can't lose any more bp and as I have zero aspirations for High King, I should be fine. I barely look at my battle page anymore.

Well, I was never really chained excessively so far, I am pvp built to avoid those situations, and chain wars usually die down after like a week or two, no big deal. I'm also "only" Baron, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Even if you have 500 chainers, you still have only 138 hp, they get to "split" you, but you face the same amount of defeats every login than if you had 1 chainer.

I just think in the end, hiders abandon their right to complain about anything in game. They chose to exploit the devs incompetency so they can't really blame it after when it doesn't please them anymore, kinda hypocritical.

igtenos
05-24-2010, 06:41 AM
Well, I was never really chained excessively so far, I am pvp built to avoid those situations, and chain wars usually die down after like a week or two, no big deal. I'm also "only" Baron, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
Once you hit Duke, things start to change. At least that was my experience. With a 6+bsi, I had no trouble repelling attackers while a baron or Earl. Minute I hit Prince, that changed fast. I was getting hit by every glass cannon that could find me. I'm sure other pvpers have had the same experiences, especially those that got their ranks under level 200.


I just think in the end, hiders abandon their right to complain about anything in game. They chose to exploit the devs incompetency so they can't really blame it after when it doesn't please them anymore, kinda hypocritical.
It sounds kinda hypocritical to me to blame the players for a mechanic that exists in all 501 RPGs. If the devs wanted to stop hiding, they could have ages ago.

I'll stop at that. It's pretty obvious that we share conflicting opinions. :)

Besides I thought this thread was about chaining?

Masterdo
05-24-2010, 06:57 AM
I'll stop at that. It's pretty obvious that we share conflicting opinions. :)

Besides I thought this thread was about chaining?

I also like to take a pretty clear position for a debate's sake, but in the end, I really don't care about anything in this game. I spent quite a few bucks on it, enjoy it a lot at my pace, and like other 501 games, will get to wherever I want given enough time (LOTS of it :p ). Other people hiding are nothing but a speedbump in the end.

Take care !

PS : What, this was about chaining ? :D They always turn to hiding, it's a natural process it seems.

zaph34r
05-24-2010, 07:09 AM
the only thing i hate about chaining is
when i chain, i also lost HP right and i usually heal when its low on HP

now here's the problem, if i only got 12-10HP
why do they kill me, nobody attack me before and thats just a few minutes? it suck
or when i hit them, why did i killed? killing myself, BS...
its always 12 damage! not like before, win or lose just losing 2-8 damage!

is it just my bad luck?
note, mostly i killed like this.

mydragoon
05-25-2010, 01:15 AM
the only thing i hate about chaining is
when i chain, i also lost HP right and i usually heal when its low on HP

now here's the problem, if i only got 12-10HP
why do they kill me, nobody attack me before and thats just a few minutes? it suck
or when i hit them, why did i killed? killing myself, BS...
its always 12 damage! not like before, win or lose just losing 2-8 damage!

is it just my bad luck?
note, mostly i killed like this.

when i chain... i equip myself with edea. i dun have those generals that increase in stats... so, with edea... when i chain, damage to myself is reduced. no need to heal myself that often.

alnitak
05-25-2010, 09:55 PM
It seems to me that chaining is built into the game. Why else would they have an "Invade again?" or "Duel again?" button? They could just as easily throw you back into the pool to select another adversary.

All of these type of games, going back to D&D, MTG and even before have always included battles "to the death." Although some gave you an option to flee, often once in a battle, you were there to the end. It was mainly about finding and defeating opponents to achieve some goal -- loot, access to new environments, experience, etc. It seems to be a fundamental mechanism of these types of games. Hiding too. You could always choose to engage an enemy, or not and just explore (though your rewards were limited).

I think the bigger problem with CA is bookmarking and scripts. They were never intended to be part of the game, but are contrived because of the online nature of the game and inventive "technology wizards." If the devs had ever intended for you to bookmark somebody, they would have given you a tab for "enemies." And scripts, where the computer plays the game for you automatically without you ever being online, especially as it applies to laying in wait for a bookmarked opponent and then pouncing as soon as they appear online, are so far outside the parameters of any game environment, it just blows my mind that people use them in good conscience.

slchan0
05-27-2010, 07:53 AM
yes chaining, hiding, bookmarking is part of the game since day 1. There was a time (over 1.5 years back) that this game is almost dead because the 70+ gauntlet we can't find any targets for an average of 30 mins to an hour in the battle page except acolytes and scouts.

We get lucky now you only get chained down once after you log off. The biggest complain that time are people who log off for 24 hours, come back and got killed over 20 (there are cases over 50, I personally only get killed 15+ for a 30+ hour period) times since they still auto regen health while offline if you didn't hide before logging off.

Every other rank that can possibly give BP is either dead or too weak to battle due to the constant chaining since there's nothing else to do except killing other people :). Heck I started with attacking once, then increased to 3 when there's less, then chain down to death as it gets worse and finally bookmark targets. Ended up I just stopped playing since it's becoming very tiresome finding people to attack.

The devs addressed this problem when the PVP aspect of the game is dying and introduced the PVM aspect of it. Bundle that with the new gain/loss of BPs in battle, a good portion of the players (old and new) have something else to spend their time off thus slowly repopulating the battle list again.

So they did do something about it? Yes they did. It's just that the solution doesn't necessarily satisfy everyone.

NaPaLM
05-29-2010, 06:36 AM
I chain strictly for battle points, it's difficult to make High King status because everyone is so far behind.
If I find anyone from earl,duke and above I chain them just to get my BP's otherwise it's impossible to get the required amount.
I stop chaining people if they ***** about it too much though.

That being said, I think I've been punished by the dev's because my HP is now 1 for some reason :S

Cartmage
05-29-2010, 12:57 PM
The only reason I chain is to gain rank... Like others said once you get so high, it is difficult to find targets that give more rank.

Why gain rank? The same could be asked about any aspect of the game.... why kill monsters for loot? Why do quests to raise general levels and get skill points? - Because it is one of the goals of the game.

Gaining rank gives achievements and favor points. Any idea how long it would take to go through ~300 stamina if you had to find a new target every single time?

It's nothing personal, and I don't hide / don't mind retribution... that being said, I also do not attack players I will not gain at least 10 BP from (same rank or higher).

davinity
05-29-2010, 01:03 PM
read in signature

Synelle
05-29-2010, 11:33 PM
I don't like hitting targets that yield fewer than 10 BPs. As you go up in rank they get harder to find.

If I find a BP pinata why wouldn't I keep hitting it until it stops dropping candy? Better than breaking my stick (wasting stamina) looking for targets all the time.

I don't bookmark anyone or hide. If they can beat some points out of me in return its all fair.

Ginger The Hutt
07-30-2010, 08:49 AM
If I find a BP pinata why wouldn't I keep hitting it until it stops dropping candy? Better than breaking my stick (wasting stamina) looking for targets all the time.

I don't bookmark anyone or hide. If they can beat some points out of me in return its all fair.

I think that's a good quote for my thread... :D do you mind if I use it?

Nubiesan
07-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Question: How do you get back at someone who chains you? I know that I should click on their name to see their keep, but how do I attack them to get back at them? Where do I enter their info?

Also, how can I find out how large someone's army is? I can see their generals and what equipment they have (but not how much of each they have), but no army size. Thanks