PLEASE balance out attack/defense for attack points! Stamina seems to be ALL they use

[laura]

I posted another thread but thought this needed its own. Anyone noticed in fighting dragons that ONLY stamina is factoring in how much damage a given attack by a player is? A weak person sporting no armor can go in and suddenly land critical hits JUST for having high stamina, whereas someone with high attack/defense and regular stamina will merely be "very" or "extremely" hard on hits. We've been playing with the same circle of team mates and it's been horribly unfair and gives NO incentive to be better-armed, stronger with attack or defense, more revved up on magic, nothing! ONLY stamina is counting, and that's ludicrous for any rpg style game!!

Example of two team players 36 hours ago (stats and "stuff" have changed a bit, but it's consistent now, too)--no one has upped health except 1 player to 105 via Aurora (we got all the stats and armor on everyone so we would battle all the lower level players' dragons FIRST so we could get some emeralds before we all got too high for that dragon type):

Player 1: Level 17 Squire, Army of 23 members. Stamina 55, Attack 54, Defense 47. Highest armor is ONE Gladiator Sword--never purchased another. Also has Sword of Light (A2/D1), 2 regular swords, and the avenger platemail, 1 leather armor and 2 Flame Bows. Highest unit is ONE dragon, also has 3 angels for the Water Temple quest. The rest are cleric/wizard/footmen--the low end ones. Highest General Titania (sp?). Has 2 magic missiles and 1 energy bolt and 1 dragon charm.

Player 2: Level 78 Leiutenant Commander, Army of 224 members. Stamina 28, Attack 120, Defense 111. Armor 108 Gladiator Swords, the Holy Avenger, Blade of Vengeance (17A/15D), sun blade, robes of tempest, cowl of avenger, Lionheart blade and amulet, Amulets of Cefka and Berzerker (and 50 sacred) , Crowns of Tempest and Moonfall, 2 Tempest shields and 1 Berzerker Shield, Staff of Tempest, Moonfall Mace, 2 Elven Plates, you get the point--a lot of high and moderate battle equipment on double the attack stats. Units are 81 knight heroes, 100 phoenixes, 50 dragons, 100 angels, 3 death knights, a ton of the 6/6 things--water sprites, griffins, etc. and a couple vampires, stuff that don't come into play anyway. Magic are 68 Champions Auras, Lightning Storm, 4 Holy Shields, Moonfall Aura, Avengers Oath, 14 Energy Bolts, 18 magic missiles, 2 Greater Fireballs, 7 Dragon Charms.

When calculating percentages of critical hits across a gold and red dragon (I didn't do this part, btw, am just relaying it here)... Player 1 had 1200% the critical hits of Player 2. Total Damage would logically be, if stats were even, twice as high for player 1, as the stamina was almost exactly twice that, NOT 12 times, though... factoring in ATTACK AND DEFENSE, they should've been even in damage--they were playing the exact same times, mind you, and both used their stamina, let it refill a bit, used again both leveled up 1x during each of these dragons, btw)--after the first strike, the only down time was pretty even: sleeping for 7-8 hours. When you factor in ARMOR--whether it's duel-style (which I think it should be since we're obviously in each other's armies if we're fighting each others' dragons) OR full army is taken into account, one player's sporting a blade of vengeance, sun blades, holy avengers, amulet of cefka, lightning bolts and the other a single gladiator sword and dragon charm for magic with avenger platemail on? In any case, you might guess these 2 know each other. They're both curious as to why almost every power attack for player 2 across 8 dragons was in the 2000-2500 range (when upping stamina, it's gone to about 15-20% "cataclysmic" barely topping 3k for power attacks... and the other regularly sports 6800-7600 hits.

The other detail? One person with *115* stamina... has, every single time, received all the helm components. If only ONE receives that piece each battle, we have to abandon our very FRIENDS to get these pieces SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON TOTAL STAMINA. Incidentally, the one with 115 stamina is fighting 3-4 dragons at once... so not hitting any MORE than the others (and is weaker across the board on everything else mind you)... just happens to almost always get critical hits because total stamina is what the game cares about.

[Leven Sinclaire]

I agree, though you must take into consideration that if you change it to reflect total attack and defense power, then it would be highly advantageous to high level players as they'd always have more time to build their stats. This would seriously hinder any beginning and low level players when dealing with dragons. While I agree that attack should be factored a little more heavily into the damage calculation, you can't forget about those who have less equipment and levels. Plus, those who stack stamina, will in the long run cause their own demise. High stamina with no defense or attack won't be able to kill anyone...only dragons.

[Lena Gkika]

one correction : a dragon drops more than one instance of the helm ingredient. I was fighting a red one with some friends, and 3 of them got the Jewel of fire at the same time (all in the top 10)

i do agree that attack should matter. If someone had the time to get 100 stamina, he also had the time to get 200 att or defense at same amount of time. That's not weak at all. And if they are afraid that it will be unfair for lower level players they could use the att:def ratio. So someone who invested on att more than def, can strike harder than someone who didn't. At least that should happen according to dragon help page

[Mursilis]

So someone who invested on att more than def, can strike harder than someone who didn't. At least that should happen according to dragon help page

And it is happening. As someone with very little points in the attack stat I can say for certain people below, above and at my level with more attack stats do more damage per hit than I do.

[Lena Gkika]

And it is happening. As someone with very little points in the attack stat I can say for certain people below, above and at my level with more attack stats do more damage per hit than I do.

really? i have 630 attack and i find that i do same amount of damage as people in the very low levels, or some others that are on same level as me but heavily invested on defense (i know since some have given me their stats due to the experiment) .. haven't really noticed a difference

[jesusfreak12158]

I think that how it should factor in attack/defense is attack/level and defense/level multiplied by whatever factor you wish to come up with an average attack of 2350/power attack. This way it allows for upper and lower levels who put a lot into attack/defense to be rewarded for it.

[Pam Reetz]

well I was top person to deliver damage on a red dragon and was a bit sad I did not get the jewel of fire. My stamina was about 110. So I am trying again on another red one

[Mursilis]

really? i have 630 attack and i find that i do same amount of damage as people in the very low levels, or some others that are on same level as me but heavily invested on defense (i know since some have given me their stats due to the experiment) .. haven't really noticed a difference

It isn't a huge difference, maybe 50-70 points per single stamina attack. But I do notice it all the same.

[Teisei]

level shouldn't matter to much as far as players are concerned.... the level of the dragons seems to reflect the level of the summoner.
if your low level then attacking a red dragon should be near fetal if not so and you should also get great XP for living if you do.

[Alundra]

It isn't a huge difference, maybe 50-70 points per single stamina attack. But I do notice it all the same.

Not enough to make a difference but I think they did that so everyone can participate, even the lower level players. A way to get everyone involved. All I can say is that when the newness of the dragons wear off, these players are going to be hurting on the battle field.

What I find worse are people creating duplicate and triplicate accounts to kill dragons quicker. They are creating these players and putting everything in stamina. That is a bigger issue to me than a player who has decided to put all their skill point into stamina.

[Commander-Tidus]

And here I was thinking that attack mattered. So what the heck is attack points good for then? Having high stamina is the only way to go these days I guess..

[RisingLoki]

there is an issue when a lvl 9 can hit as hard as a lvl 50 with a good amount of points in attack

[Alundra]

Ah Commander, let's not make assumptions. Dragons will not hold people's attention forever. If a new/different incentive comes along and people go back to the battle field, having a lot of stamina with low attack and defense isn't going to help. Balance is the key to any game.

Coordinating your efforts and getting more friends to take down a dragon doesn't require extra stamina.

[Alundra]

there is an issue when a lvl 9 can hit as hard as a lvl 50 with a good amount of points in attack

If a lvl 200 player hits for 200 and a level 7 that wants to attack a dragon hits for 7 damage, would it be fun for the level 7 player? Probably not. I'm sure they set it up that way so everyone can feel like they've contributed which I think is a good thing. Besides, does it really hurt anything?

[Mursilis]

Not enough to make a difference but I think they did that so everyone can paWhat I find worse are people creating duplicate and triplicate accounts to kill dragons quicker. They are creating these players and putting everything in stamina. That is a bigger issue to me than a player who has decided to put all their skill point into stamina.

I definitely agree, I've heard of several stating they did this simply to summon Emerald dragons, or take down dragons quickly. Since it's against FB policy I hope they don't get caught, as then their main account is gone too and we lose an active player.

[Dregun]

Well, it seems to me the easist way for the makers of CA to add balance into the game and piss off a bunch of people is to make the damage done to dragons based on the players Health stat.

Right now it is a useless attribute to invest in, people put the skill points into ATT, DEF, EN, STA and nothing else.

Just a thought.

[Kael]

I think the dragons hit like little kids. 1 dmg is kind of lame for a 2.7 million hp red dragon.

[laura]

Ah Commander, let's not make assumptions. Dragons will not hold people's attention forever. If a new/different incentive comes along and people go back to the battle field, having a lot of stamina with low attack and defense isn't going to help. Balance is the key to any game.

Coordinating your efforts and getting more friends to take down a dragon doesn't require extra stamina.

Alundra--we're not talking about being able to take down dragons (but don't forget we do have a 50 person cap and many are 1 hit wonders who will leave after a single hitting session, especially if they see 100k damage at the top and realize their mediocre 3k won't really ever catch up to Mr or Miss stamina almighty)... we're taking down reds in ~12-20 hours depending on when it was summoned and who by (all of us with only 1 account) in a team of 12 with others randomly popping in here and there. Only 1 of us has gotten any helm components and he's gotten them every single time. That isn't fair when people the same level that upped attack/defense but didn't go wild on stamina are reaping menial rewards because that person's dragon hits are always ridiculously high.

Attack only matters battling other players--which is pretty useless now with dragons giving more $ AND replacing the demi points too. I think it's super that low players can get in, but face it, for a level 17 to match hit points with a level 71, the developers truly have to be dyslexic to think it makes sense. They haven't even had enough level-up chances to match on hardly any stat save the never-increased health.

Keep in mind the low level players get low level rewards (war bears and such)... we've seen that consistently. We've been taking screenshots to figure out how to best balance things, but face it--we're kind of hurting and a bit upset that someone has, at only a few levels up from the rest of us, stamina that is over 170. That's flat out ridiculous. Maybe it was from sticking with Azeron past getting the super high end blade on top of using it on leveling up, but hmm, makes me wonder why someone would BOTHER upping stamina clearly ages before dragons existed in the game.

Kael... you're going off topic, way off--whether the dragon hits like a wuss is beside the point.

YES it's cool that the level 7 can hit "very hard" and "Extremely hard" and even get to earth shattering (or critical hits for power attacks)... but the PERCENTAGE of critical hits... that is really where the loot-winning happens, and well... face it, people with balanced stats are suffering for as long as dragons are what they offer us to gift stuff for and such--which there's no likelihood of it slowing down on, either. It will probably keep people amused for quite a long time as my team has defeated some 20 odd dragons.. every one that gave any helm parts gave it to the high stamina guy--his stamina doesn't REFILL any faster, and he wasn't even coming on as much as many of us... he only has to hit 1/3 the times despite his other stats being lower. That makes everyone with normal stamina have to work 3 times as hard? It is impossible--we can't. We literally had a dragon over 3/4 of the way gone, and he hadn't touched it. He came in and poof despite us still fighting and the LOWEST person still having over 100k damage... he hits it a dozen times and it on top for ONE session of hitting with half my attack stats. NOT cool considering we'd worked on the thing for 16 hours and he had 16 hours of work kicked because of *one* stat--this is a repeat thing, too--we CAN'T keep up despite him fighting 3-4 at a time, not just ours! He's a nice friend, of course, or we wouldn't want to play with him; he is just unfairly advantaged by no pre-knowledged means of his own--he's not a game creator after all. Heck, he's done less than 1/3 of the quests I have. I have 300+ on my energy. He put those same points on his stamina to battle all day and night. I only battled enough ppl to get my demi points and go do quests.

Thanks for the input from everyone, of course. I hope they fix it. I have NO issues with low-level players getting to do some good damage--not like they have 100 for THEIR stamina. I have issues with high-stamina players taking the vast majority of the rewards. We love our team players... it's just frustrating that he's crying about not having the talon from an emerald when we don't have anything from ANY of the 10 reds, 7 golds, 4 frosties, and 1 emerald.

[wildgues]

I agree, though you must take into consideration that if you change it to reflect total attack and defense power, then it would be highly advantageous to high level players as they'd always have more time to build their stats. This would seriously hinder any beginning and low level players when dealing with dragons. While I agree that attack should be factored a little more heavily into the damage calculation, you can't forget about those who have less equipment and levels. Plus, those who stack stamina, will in the long run cause their own demise. High stamina with no defense or attack won't be able to kill anyone...only dragons.

Ok, this is a trend that I see that I don't understand. Everybody is concerned about the long playing, high level players not getting some kind of advantage. I don't understand this. Why shouldn't someone who's been playing for 3 months have an advantage over someone who's played 3 days? Everyone says it's not fair to the new players. Why not? The long term players were new once. There's very little PvP that could hinder progress. Battle area only shows player of similar level. If you get attacked by someone of a much higher battle rank than you, you lose very little battle points. If you participate in a dragon battle, you get something no matter how little or much damage you do, where is any of this unfair? If anything trying to make it fair for new players makes it unfair to those who have put in the time.

[Alundra]

I have NO issues with low-level players getting to do some good damage--not like they have 100 for THEIR stamina. I have issues with high-stamina players taking the vast majority of the rewards. We love our team players... it's just frustrating that he's crying about not having the talon from an emerald when we don't have anything from ANY of the 10 reds, 7 golds, 4 frosties, and 1 emerald.

Laura, I have a feeling that this is done to make it easier for people to level up in the game. I have neglected my battle page lately and noticed yesterday taht there are A LOT of 100+ level players now days. It's going to go back to the battle field so the people that bumped up their stamina to kill dragons are going to be the ones that won't be able to hold their own when the next battle rank is introduced. It may not e called battle ranks but it's going to go back to that just wait and see. People are getting the extra EXP points and new equipment... it only means one thing.

I do agree with the whole random drop bit. I've killed and help killed over 25 dragons and all I've got are 4 jewels of fire. It's true that most of them have been reds but I would think by now, I'd have another helm piece. Too bad we can't trade them...

[Depa]

What i am finding is att/def only seems to make a noticeable difference in money collected per hit I have 2 chars both about lvl 55 one is pure sta and energy and other is att/def with small amount in sta My att/def char is collecting well over 300k gold per hit while the one with very low att and def is only getting around 40k not finding to much of a differance in exp or any thing else thou and yes the sta char ends up with more overall dmg almost all the time.

[gaby214]

What i am finding is att/def only seems to make a noticeable difference in money collected per hit I have 2 chars both about lvl 55 one is pure sta and energy and other is att/def with small amount in sta My att/def char is collecting well over 300k gold per hit while the one with very low att and def is only getting around 40k not finding to much of a differance in exp or any thing else thou and yes the sta char ends up with more overall dmg almost all the time.

Ok I know this thread is about months old but I do agree. If you have more stamina than att/def you do more damage to dragons but not much gold and if you have more att/def then it is the otherway around. In addition, I don't think it is unfair for lower leverl players to have advantage (in dragons) for investing on stamina. I think it's a matter of choice and priority, that's their choice they also put up with loses when someone attacks them anyway. If you want to be an invader or do PvP then invest on att/def, that is just the way it is. There are advantages and disadvantages. :)

In my case I invested first in defense then invested on stamina. My reasoning for defense first is I can pick who I can attack but cannot to those who want to attack me. I started attacking dragons to get more dragons so my units will be stronger in battles.

[noneuklid]

Me: att 860.

You attacked The Frost Dragon hitting them for an UNGODLY amount of Damage[7938]!

Friend: att 210.

Jack attacked The Frost Dragon hitting them for a Cataclysmic amount of Damage[3468]!

Attack does matter.

[labalaba]

Think of it this way, a sumo wrestler have better defense than
a karate senshei, and vice versa with attack, both can still crush
my back. Now a gymnast would have better stamina than both
while lacking in att/def, he can throw more punches and evade
more quickly but he wont last long for invasion (mass-attack).

As for using multiple accounts to beat a dragon, well that just
as lame as doing it solo, this game afterall is a social-network
game, maybe CA can make special Guilds for the game where
ppl obligated to contribute battles/monsters rather than joining
Facebook groups to find loot drops.